Things Noticeable this week

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I agree and I think rightly so. They are quite correct to not accept any such separation.

BREXIT ???

Originally Posted by scoundrel

What I would find unacceptable is any "democratic" referendum to rebel against the lawful authority of the state. This was done quite often in the past as an alibi for undermining the integrity of a nation, as for example the plebescite which followed the Anschluss in Austria in 1938. I seem to remember that Russia ratified its theft of Crimea in a similar manner more recently. The people who voted in that referendum are not Russians, but rather are disloyal Ukrainians, as indeed the Austrians who voted in 1938 were disloyal to Austria. The Catalonians who affirmed support for separation in this referendum just gone are traitors to Spain IMHO. In such a case as this, the flow of blood is extremely likely and the blame will lie with the parties who turned against their own countrymen and betrayed their salt. Naturally I hope for better things but I categorically reject the notion of holding a free and democratic vote on whether or not to turn traitor.

What to hell do you have for an imagination of a vote in the III. Reich ???
The most of the opposition politicians were jailed.
My Grandma told me:
If one came into the the polling room, the polling booth were turned to the wall. Of course one could pull them in front to give a secret vote. But then, when you got out of the building one got beaten up by group of about 20 older members of the Hitler-youth. You had obviously not voted for the right party, the NSDAP. One could avoid this, if there were enough friends at the voting building who left it with you.
Of course there were enough Nazis too, without any doubt.

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I certainly agree that the central government and police of Spain, not to mention the King, have mishandled the situation. It will be much harder now to defuse tension or to have a compromise. It is sad, but it is what it is.

I would argue that the EU has no business to interfere in the internal affairs of Spain.

The Catalan government requested the EU for a mediation, not only once (4x I think).
If I had to do with it: 1. condition - no decision and mention of separation during the mediation.
(I think it's all about money. The Catalans are paying more than 20% of the Gross National Product).

The Spanish government is blocking all forms of "mediations from outside". So the Spanish prime minister.

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I would argue that the EU has no business to interfere in the internal affairs of Great Britain. That is a matter for the British people and government to decide. My own opinion is that if the Scottish people ever again insist on demanding a referendum and force the rest of us to grant one, then I as an Englishman must also be allowed a referendum on the same day to decide whether or not to tell Scotland to fuck off out of it, even if she votes to stay in the Union.

[/QUOTE]
The EU would do the devil to intervene/ "intermeddle" in Scotland. That's the matter of Scotland.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

The Nationalists lost a large number of seats in the Scottish and the UK parliaments at the recent elections - you should really play closer attention to these details if you're going to pontificate on Scottish and UK affairs.

As for the Queen [ may she live and reign for a thousand years] she was born in Bruton St in London if I recall correctly .

Yeah, she is lightly beyond the absolute majority.

As a Pakistani or a Polish, born in Glasgow is a real Scotsman without a migration background.
(It was a just joke, not a political statement! )

[rupertramjet]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

BREXIT ???

Completely different situation, Britain joined the European Common Market, by a very close referendum vote. Britain did not join a Franco German dominated European Union, or as the Belgian Dictator appears to see it The United States of Europe, Scottish independence is no different to Catalan Independence, Scotland could not survive on her own, but as scounds says, I too would like a vote on telling them to go fuck themselves. Read some of ottos posts on this subject, he is a Scot!

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

BREXIT ???

The last time I checked, Great Britain was still a country in her own right rather than a long established but rebellious part of another country, as is Catalonia. It is in order to retain our status as an independent self-governing nation that we have voted to leave an EU which is working towards an "ever closer union", a policy goal on which we were never as a people consulted. I strongly oppose the separatist aspirations of disloyal minorities but I endorse the right of independent countries to retain their independence and incidentally their territorial integrity. On the Catalonia question, Spain is in the right; on the Scotland question, we in the rest of the UK have rather had it up to the eyeballs with the Scottish Nationalists and we will not slash our wrists or anything if Scotland allows the SNP to make their decisions; it will then be the fault of the Scottish people for not kicking these idiots out of office. I hope it doesn't happen because I like Scotland. If they choose to stay I will be glad. But if they want to leave then I also want them gone.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

Completely different situation, Britain joined the European Common Market, by a very close referendum vote. Britain did not join a Franco German dominated European Union, or as the Belgian Dictator appears to see it The United States of Europe, Scottish independence is no different to Catalan Independence, Scotland could not survive on her own, but as scounds says, I too would like a vote on telling them to go fuck themselves. Read some of ottos posts on this subject, he is a Scot!

Not strictly true, as many of us have pointed out previously Britain was taken into the European Economic Community on 1 July 1973 by that teacherous git EUdward HEUth, the British people had no choice in the matter. This was after the famous French Jimmy Durante impersonator Charles DeGauloftheGuy had twice blocked UK entry, so there has always been a degree of enmity. The referendum giving people a choice was held in 6 June 1975 almost 2 years later

Interestingly Norway was also offered the chance to join in 1973, their leaders were more democratic than Heath though, they held a referendum at the time and the Norwegian people said NO.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

BREXIT ??? http://vintage-erotica-forum.com/ima...ilies/wink.gif



What to hell do you have for an imagination of a vote in the III. Reich ???
The most of the opposition politicians were jailed.
My Grandma told me:
If one came into the the polling room, the polling booth were turned to the wall. Of course one could pull them in front to give a secret vote. But then, when you got out of the building one got beaten up by group of about 20 older members of the Hitler-youth. You had obviously not voted for the right party, the NSDAP. One could avoid this, if there were enough friends at the voting building who left it with you.
Of course there were enough Nazis too, without any doubt.

Same deal though: lets have a referendum to pretend that a highly illegal action was legitimate and valid. In the circumstances you describe I would have stayed away from the poll entirely and taken any chance I could get to leave the country, as some people did. It was a poll to pretend that the conquest of Austria by force was legal. Anyone who voted yes was giving legitimacy to the Anschluss, however unwillingly.

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

The Catalan government requested the EU for a mediation, not only once (4x I think).
If I had to do with it: 1. condition - no decision and mention of separation during the mediation.
(I think it's all about money. The Catalans are paying more than 20% of the Gross National Product).

The EU should tell the Catalan government to stop acting in a disloyal and seditious manner.

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

The Spanish government is blocking all forms of "mediations from outside". So the Spanish prime minister.

The Spanish prime minister seems to agree with me that the EU should keep its nose out of other peoples' business.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by rupertramjet

Completely different situation, Britain joined the European Common Market, by a very close referendum vote. Britain did not join a Franco German dominated European Union, or as the Belgian Dictator appears to see it The United States of Europe, Scottish independence is no different to Catalan Independence, Scotland could not survive on her own, but as scounds says, I too would like a vote on telling them to go fuck themselves. Read some of ottos posts on this subject, he is a Scot!

The topic was on Spain, not on GB !
Your Prime Margret Thatcher signed the Maastricht contracts.

He is a - when he is - a Luxembourg Dictator, not a Belgian Dictator.

The Netherlands, Malta, Luxembourg, Denmark, Belgium, Portugal does survife, having also not more inhabitants than Scotland.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

The Spanish prime minister seems to agree with me that the EU should keep its nose out of other peoples' business.

Until all is exploding - than they cry the EU for help, like usually.

The Spanish prime is an incapable idiot, who is lighting the fire instead of blowing it out.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

Until all is exploding - than they cry the EU for help, like usually.

The Spanish prime is an incapable idiot, who is lighting the fire instead of blowing it out.

Have they cried for help to the EU? I wasn't aware.

It might be that the Spanish PM has decided to call the Catalan government out on their posturing and has also decided to go the whole way if necessary to impose the authority of the state on a province which has got too big for its boots.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

The topic was on Spain, not on GB !
Your Prime Margret Thatcher signed the Maastricht contracts.

He is a - when he is - a Luxembourg Dictator, not a Belgian Dictator.

The Netherlands, Malta, Luxembourg, Denmark, Belgium, Portugal does survife, having also not more inhabitants than Scotland.

She had no right to do it without a referendum, but did it anyway, just like Edward Heath and (later) Gordon Brown, who firmly promised us a referendum in any new European constitution, and then did a Word Replace on the word "constitution" to remove it from the Treaty of Lisbon and told us we didn't need a referendum any more.

First chance we got, we voted to leave: because we have learned that our own national politicians are selling us out every chance they get.

Scotland will manage as an independent country if she so decides: I am sure she will get by. But her standard of living will fall considerably, at least down to Ireland's level and probably further down than that. This is because she will lose her Barnett Formula subsidies, and will have various economic hurdles to surmount, such as a new currency and a new central bank. If independence is important enough, that is something people will accept.