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Old February 1st, 2014, 06:32 PM   #3281
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I dont know about other countries but in England and Wales there is no specific law against murder. When youve been charged with killing someone the court will say to you "you are charged with the murder of such and such an offence contrary to common law"
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Old February 1st, 2014, 07:27 PM   #3282
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Speaking of Charles II you might like this nice rap that the Horrible Histories team did for CBBC(Children's BBC) two years ago-I think it's brilliant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2kyNbZc7oc
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Old February 1st, 2014, 11:02 PM   #3283
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Charles II was the king that brought back the Crown Jewels, make-up, sport and plays and reinstated Christmas after Oliver Cromwell had banned it.

It wasn't Cromwell who banned christmas GM, it was Parliament in 1647. I believe that they also did the same for Easter and Whitsun. Many of the practices that surrounded christmas were seen as 'Roman Catholic' and idolatrous, and therefore frowned upon by the Puritan ranks in England at the time. Furthemore, the festival of Yule being a pagan festival and the giving of gifts etc. stemming from the Roman festival of Saturnalia, these were seen as blasphemous to the Puritan leaders.

Cromwell himself was far less Puritan than many of his contemporaries, something that often brought him into conflict with many of the Puritans leaders at the time, both in Parliament and the Army.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 09:12 AM   #3284
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Lets not forget that the "founding fathers" of the USA were English puritans who thought England wasnt puritan enough.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 12:00 PM   #3285
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Lets not forget that the "founding fathers" of the USA were English puritans who thought England wasnt puritan enough.
And they left in September 1620!

As a little bit of trivia regarding the Mayflower and the Pilgrim fathers...

In Rotherhithe St. Rotherhithe, South London, stands the pub, now called 'The Mayflower', but originally, and from ancient times, called 'The Shippe'.


The Mayflower, Rotherhithe.

IIRC. Christopher Jones, the captain and part owner of the Mayflower, was also a part owner of the tavern, and it was from here that the Mayflower collected its first Puritan passengers for the trip to the New World. She sailed from Rotherhithe to Southampton and then Plymouth to collect the rest of the pilgrims. She returned to Rotherhithe in May 1621.
Captain Christopher Jones died the following year and is buried in the church of St. Mary, just opposite the inn, as are, I believe, a few of the crew.

As a link with its history, The Mayflower Inn was allowed to sell American postage stamps!

How do I know all this?? Well back in the mid 80's this was my local wateringhole!
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 01:27 PM   #3286
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Point of order, the Pilgrim Fathers actually set sail from Boston Lincolnshire.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 02:25 PM   #3287
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Point of order, the Pilgrim Fathers actually set sail from Boston Lincolnshire.

That so far as some of the original members were from Nottingham and Lincolnshire area is true. However, I have never heard of either of the ships sailing from the north on this voyage.
That Boston was a bit of a hotbed of religious 'new thinking' is known, and that some of the early pilgrims did leave the area, but so far as I am aware they went to Holland, and this was many years before the actual departure in the Mayflower.
When the Mayflower sailed for the new world in September 1620 with the Swiftsure (?) accompanying her, there were some members of a religious community from Holland, and these IIRC, were picked up at Southampton. Possibly, some of these may have been some of the original pilgrims from Boston.
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 06:09 PM   #3288
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It wasn't Cromwell who banned christmas GM, it was Parliament in 1647. I believe that they also did the same for Easter and Whitsun. Many of the practices that surrounded christmas were seen as 'Roman Catholic' and idolatrous, and therefore frowned upon by the Puritan ranks in England at the time. Furthemore, the festival of Yule being a pagan festival and the giving of gifts etc. stemming from the Roman festival of Saturnalia, these were seen as blasphemous to the Puritan leaders.

Cromwell himself was far less Puritan than many of his contemporaries, something that often brought him into conflict with many of the Puritans leaders at the time, both in Parliament and the Army.
Yeah yeah whatever, so shoot me already. My memory possibly failed me it has been over 30 years since I did History O'Level and I don't use Google as much as some.
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Old February 3rd, 2014, 04:22 AM   #3289
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Lets not forget that the "founding fathers" of the USA were English puritans who thought England wasnt puritan enough.
As I like to put it, America was colonized by people, as Europe was ripping itself apart with religious civil wars, reformation and the Catholic Church splintering apart over how to say "amen", who felt that others weren't taking religion seriously enough.

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I rage and weep for my country.
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I can reup screencaps, other material might have been lost.
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Old February 3rd, 2014, 08:11 AM   #3290
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Yeah yeah whatever, so shoot me already. My memory possibly failed me it has been over 30 years since I did History O'Level and I don't use Google as much as some.
Actually GM, I didn't use Google or any other search engine, I happen to have been extremely interested in the English Civil War, the Commonwealth and Oliver Cromwell especially, for over 40 years!

The point of my post was that many people give the blame to Cromwell, for many things that weren't of his doing. He is often blamed for many of the churches being desecrated, whereas it was often done by his Great uncle Thomas Cromwell a hundred years earlier! As I said, he was far less Puritan than many at that time.

R.
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