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Old August 4th, 2010, 08:17 PM   #61
Denaniel
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Best to try reading data DVD-R's not only on different versions of Windoze but also on Macs. I had to play around with settings in Nero to ensure that my data DVD's (mostly avi, mpeg, wmv, jpegs etc.) will play on Macs as well as XP and Vista. I'm not at my home PC (still traveling) but will add details when I return home.

Also, after researching info on quality of blank DVD's, I now use only Taiyo Yuden silver single layer (4.7GB) and Verbatim dual-layer DVD-R (DL). Since DVD's have only been around for a few decades, there is no guarantee that even the best will last more than 20 or 30 years, but testing in controlled conditions suggests the better quality brands may last as long as 100 years.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 09:50 PM   #62
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I don't have an external HD, so I'm used to burning evrything on DVD (I've been using Philips DVD-R for years). It was not that long ago (one year, actually), that I still worked with a 40 giga Windows XP, so backing everything up and FAST is a reflex to me. Even now that I have 500 giga available, I burn as soon as I have enough movies to fit into a disc (basically, 5).
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Old August 5th, 2010, 10:37 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denaniel View Post
But the DVD-R backups thus far have been the most reliable. I use Taiyo Yuden silver, which come 100 per spindle and cost less than 30 cents each. That's about 7 cents per gigabyte. A one terabyte HDD would have to cost less than US$70 to match that price, and hard drives fail faster than DVD-R's anyway. Sure, it's not nearly as convenient to backup to discs, but I just keep a .txt file of the numbered discs, content is searchable by title, and i can easily find what i'm looking for nearly every time.
Good info Denaniel. What's the best place online to get the Taiyo Yuden's? I'm planning on a massive backup project based on the information provided in this thread thus far.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 04:41 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by crandy View Post
not to put doubt in your minds here, as backing up stuff is standard practise for many people ... but dvd's and cd's have a lifespan (about 10years)..... i like dananiel have 100's of dvd's and cd's in binders (and 3.6tb of hdd's) .... but and heres the worring thing .... about a third are unreadable on win7 and vista the vast majority were written with xp ... did you know windows does not close dvd's /cd's if you use windows to burn discs, this explains why some of the discs do read but are seen as blank.

some of the discs were even written by the same burner and the discs when burned read fine as i always verifiy and play the files to check, i have tryed them in other drives albeit farly new pc's and its the same for the ones ive tested ... it seems to be the dvd-r's that im having issues with but there are a few +r's in there as well particulary blue tdk's dvd's and i can no longer burn -r's .... i have tryed several brands, all fail the burn process. i remember reading about windows changing the driver for dvdrw drives somewhere so there is hope that my unreadable dvd's are not completly dead. proberbly need to set a xp system up.
Here's a solution!

Find a good DVD or CD data recovery program and it should be able to find and recover all of your files from those DVDs into whatever operating system you want!

We had the optical disk controller on the motherboard burn out once ... and we did not realize that we were backing-up "unreadable" disks. We were able to recover almost 4 GB of files and all those were in perfect shape!
We were unable to recover only three pictures that were from the the last back-up but they were still on the main drive anyway ...

I hope this helps,
e.d.
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Old August 7th, 2010, 03:11 AM   #65
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Good info Denaniel. What's the best place online to get the Taiyo Yuden's?
In North America, best deal I've found is here:

http://www.supermediastore.com/brand/show/taiyo+yuden
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Old August 7th, 2010, 03:35 AM   #66
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backing up, and backing up back ups, and backing up the back ups of the back up.............. my mind works like this sometimes
other times i convince myself to take a lorazepam and stop tripping that i am going to one day really want to see that short scene again that i can't even remember the next day
really good stuff, maybe................ anything less 1 copy should be fine.
unless you're a collector i guess?

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Old August 8th, 2010, 09:50 AM   #67
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first put your hdd next to another hdd drive who runs windows xp os . Then use test disk program to read your unaccesable partition. that program wil read your partitions and wil recover your data . then you can reformat your hardrive without to loose your data from it.
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Old August 8th, 2010, 10:23 AM   #68
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first put your hdd next to another hdd drive who runs windows xp os . Then use test disk program to read your unaccesable partition. that program wil read your partitions and wil recover your data . then you can reformat your hardrive without to loose your data from it.
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Maybe a bit late, but who knows..
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Old August 12th, 2010, 12:37 AM   #69
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Is it necessary to compress (rar/zip with parity recovery as maybe an option) when you backup ?

I've a terabyte or two laying around that I'd like to start dumping to DVDs and thought I read somewhere that you should rar them up prior to burning, something to do with interleaving...thoughts ?

I probably read that wrong anyways. Its certainly nice to be able to play them straight from the DVD on standalone players etc. so just thought I'd ask what others are doing.
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Old August 14th, 2010, 11:03 PM   #70
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If you’ve ever experienced the sickening feeling of loosing years of work you have most likely looked into how to best go about safe long-term storage on DVD. There is a nice online guide put out by NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) for Archivist and Librarians. It has a lot of good info about longevity and how to increase it for DVDs.

I’d agree with Denaniel’s comments…sounds like we have read the same info. Taiyo Yuden along with Verbatim are considered the industry leaders in DVD technology and production. However, TY and Verbatim have also had their issues. Specifically Verbatim’s that were manufactured in India…try and get the ones from Singapore. A side note it is well thought that Verbatim is the only way to go with Dual Layer dvd but I have personally had issues with their DL discs.

Another problem is that they both are usually really expensive in comparison too…30 cents a DVD is a real bargain for TY media. Instead I have used TDK’s which have the same pinkish dye.

A better alternative is Sony. I recently picked up a 100 pack on a buy one get one free offer at Costco for a total of 200 discs for $30 (15 cents a piece)…they offer that about 3 times a year starting in January after Xmas. Sony also produces a terrific DVD.

In all the reading I have done on the subject, it seems there are three keys to successful storage on DVD. First, you need a good burner. Lite-On are among the best and cheapest. Second you need good software and media…ImgBurn is among the best burning software. I’m using version 2.5.0.0 as I have heard there were issues in the recent additions. Finally, you need to verify the quality of the burn afterwards and I am not referring to the burning software’s verify.

Instead after each burn I run two test using CDSpeed (only a few brands of drives support this type of scanning one of which is Lite-On). It is free software made by Nero…use version 4.7.7.16 as it is considered the most accurate.

First I run a transfer rate test…you are looking for a nice smooth curve without drop offs at the end as these indicate trouble reading the disc. Secondly, I run a “Disc Quality” test at 4x. Pay little attention to the quality score…here you are looking to see PIE (top chart) doesn’t exceed 280 and PIF errors (lower chart) don’t exceed 4. These are standards set by the industry for pressed DVD’s (Store bought movies ect.). Note my Sony’s rarely exceed PIE errors of 10 or PIF of 3.

Because these are guides for pressed DVD's some argue they are too stringent for burned media but personally, I feel better reburning if they exceed these levels. Also realize that these errors indicate that the dvd drive had trouble reading that particular segment at that given moment. Therefore rescanning can result in a particular error not reappearing. Additionally, these are correctable errors so that they don’t affect playback until they reach higher levels. So groupings of errors will prevent the drive from correcting reading the data...therefore clustering of errors above these levels are a significant sign that you will have problems reading the media later.

Over time these errors will increase as they get scratched and general degradation. So I typically rescan a sample every year or so to make sure I catch bad DVD’s before the data is unrecoverable.

Some drive manufacturers are known for being able to read really hard to read material. Here again Lite-On is one that is recommended if you have a disc that can’t be read by another drive.

One last point from experience. If you use case books to store dvd's make sure none of the see through outer plastic touches the read side. I personally didn't bother placing the locking flap at the top over the dvd but instead allowed the dvd to rest on top of it. Big mistake as over time the dvd jiggles around when you pick up the case book, causing barely noticeable scratches that dramatically increase PIF errors. Luckily my Lite-On is still able to read them despite many of them having PIF clusters of errors exceeding 30.

If you are looking for more information on the subject try cdfreaks.



Edit: I forgot to mention that it is best to eject the disk and reload it in the drive before running the test. Additionally, to clarify…every drive is capable of running the first test or transfer rate test. However, not every drive is capable of reporting PIE/PIF errors to run the second test.

Some would say the first test is the most critical and have argued against the need for the second but I still like to run both. You can kind of think of the test this way, the first test indicates how if/how well the disc is readable currently in that drive. The second test gives an indication of how compatible the disc will be in different drives and potentially the life of the data stored on the disc…although it is far from conclusive.

Last edited by Porsche_fan; August 18th, 2010 at 09:31 PM.. Reason: Added additional information
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