bring back hanging yes or no?

[spitalhouse]

Perhaps I'm somewhat of a Utopian (for which I make no apologies), but I happen to believe that the state should promote the highest ideals to which it would wish it's citizens to aspire. That's why I believe that in a civilised society there is no place for a justice system that has retribution at its core - no matter what the provocation.

A couple of weeks' ago in the wake of the mass killings in Norway, her Prime Minister stood up and stated quite categorically that his country's reaction to such an act of senseless barbarity should not be to allow its core values to become corrupted or adversely influenced by what had occurred. Instead he advocated that the response should be to further reinforce and more fervently uphold the ideals of democracy, humanity and freedom.

It was one of the most defiantly inspiring and truly courageous speeches I've ever witnessed from a politician, expressing as it did the kind of sentiments one would sadly never hear uttered by a British or American head of state.

Regards.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by palo5

Okay

I believe in shorter but harder sentences. Why do you not have more federal prisons in Alaska?

Relatively few of our prisoners are in the Federal system-- most are in State prisons-- they're usually stuck out in remote areas in states, a kid from LA will may get sent to Chico or Pelican Bay, 500 miles away. A kid from New York City will be sent "upstate" -- again, 300 miles or more away (and colder than Alaska).

US prisons are grim places, as any number of reports will attest. There are a few minimum and medium security prisons in the Federal system which aren't horrible . . . but any high security prison is going to be a foul experience, and often very dangerous.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

A kid from New York City will be sent "upstate" -- again, 300 miles or more away (and colder than Alaska)

deeps, puleease!

Nowhere near New York is colder than Alaska

It's possible New Yorkers are more sensitive to cold, but that doesn't mean it's really colder

A 1-5 year sentence in Alaska would cure them of this and many other delusions

[3745 Laddie]

How many innocent people have died,and will die,in road accidents this year-in dear old Blighty alone.One would be too many and it's tragic when it happens but no one seriously suggests banning cars.

How many innocent people have died because of the 'high minded' interventions,by the same liberal elite scum who oppose capital punishment,in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Is a custodial sentence for any crime not just legalised kidnapping,even if the culprit was caught red handed.And,if they weren't,should we really impose one.After all,if said person is later cleared by new evidence,you can hand them a lot of money in compensation and dish out all the apologies and pardons you like-but you can never give them back that time which has been lost.

[Davemetalhead]

But if you kill them then you can give them back nothing.

Just one innocent killed by the state is one too many.


And thanks for lumping me in with the "liberal elite scum".

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by Davemetalhead

But if you kill them then you can give them back nothing.

Just one innocent killed by the state is one too many.


And thanks for lumping me in with the "liberal elite scum".

And a fair few other members including Myself.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by palo5

deeps, puleease!

Nowhere near New York is colder than Alaska

It's possible New Yorkers are more sensitive to cold, but that doesn't mean it's really colder

A 1-5 year sentence in Alaska would cure them of this and many other delusions

No, actually it is colder. Old Forge, New York is routinely the coldest place in the United States, and we actually do have prisons in that area, whereas the coldest bits of Alaska are essentially uninhabited. New York is a State, not just a city -- the prisons are "upstate" in very cold places.

Upstate New York gets Canadian arctic air, -40 degrees will usually occur once a winter or so (a convenient number, is the same in Fahrenheit and Celsius)

You'd find similar temperatures in Alaska, perhaps on the North Slope or inland, but these are very remote areas-- no Federal prisons, and to operate one is ruinously expensive.

Most Alaskans live on the southwest coast (Juneau, Anchorage) which are warmed by the Pacific. Most days in winter, Upstate New York will be colder than the places in Alaska where people actually live (fwiw, so far as I know, we don't have any federal prisons in Alaska )

Originally Posted by Travel Juneau

We're no Hawaii, but Juneau's weather is probably not as cold as you think. Average summer days are in the 60s, with many days reaching into the high 70s and low 80s. (Yes, in Alaska.) Winter temperatures average about 29 degrees, but if you think that's cold consider this: Juneau's winters are warmer than cities like Minneapolis, Chicago, and Cleveland.

http://www.traveljuneau.com/cms/d/we...ravel_tips.php

Originally Posted by Anchorage Weather

Anchorage has a subarctic climate (the Köppen climate classification is Dfc) but with strong maritime influences that moderate temperatures. Average daytime summer temperatures range from approximately 55–78 °F (13–26 °C); average daytime winter temperatures are about 5–30 °F (-15–-1.1 °C). Anchorage has a frost-free growing season that averages slightly over 101 days.

Average January low and high temperatures at Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport (PANC) are 9 to 22 °F (-13 to -6 °C) with an average winter snowfall of 70.6 inches (179 cm).[9] The 1954–1955 winter had 132.8 in (337.3 cm), which made it the snowiest winter on record.[10] The coldest temperature ever recorded at the original weather station located at Merrill Field on the East end of 5th Avenue was −38 °F (−38.9 °C) on February 3, 1947.[11]

Many of New York's prisons are in the "plateau region" which has impressively cold winters, even by Russian standards, Old Forge is often the coldest inhabited place in the US (obviously it gets colder in places no one lives, like on top of Denali) -- Old Forge actually once recorded 59 degrees below zero (F)

The winters are long and cold in the Plateau Divisions of the State. In the majority of winter seasons, a temperature of -25° F or lower can be expected in the northern highlands (Northern Plateau) and -15 or colder in the southwestern and east-central highlands (Southern Plateau). The Adirondack region records from 35 to 45 days with below subzero temperatures in normal to severe winters, with a somewhat fewer number of such days occurring near Lake Champlain and the St. Lawrence River. In the Southern Plateau and in the upper Hudson Valley divisions, subzero minima are observed on about 15 days most winters and on more than 25 days in notably cold ones.

NB "subzero" is below zero Fahrenheit, -18 C

[3745 Laddie]

Hang about guys,I'm having a go at the political classes who've misruled this country for way too long and certainly not at genuine people interested in a reasoned argument.

But I would respectfully suggest that the innocent people dying argument simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.And I'd also point out that,although I'm in favour of restoration,I wouldn't want to see it happen before double jeapordy was back in place or indeed any of our civil liberties that have been messed about with were safeguarded.

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by 3745 Laddie

But I would respectfully suggest that the innocent people dying argument simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.And I'd also point out that,although I'm in favour of restoration,I wouldn't want to see it happen before double jeapordy was back in place or indeed any of our civil liberties that have been messed about with were safeguarded.

Enough innocent people have been hung in the past,Why are You so confident it couldn't happen again ?

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by 3745 Laddie

But I would respectfully suggest that the innocent people dying argument simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny

We actually have evidence from "The Innocence Project" of folks condemned to die, who were subsequently exonerated by DNA evidence. However, the ability to establish "ground truth" of innocence through DNA evidence only has existed recently, and doesn't exist in every case.

You should therefore assume that these exonerations are the bare minimum. Its also noteworthy that the State generally destroys evidence from a case after an execution-- there's no way to go back and examine the evidence for folks we've already put to death.

Based on what we know from the exonerations, we must assume that there were more than a few innocent folks executed

Originally Posted by The Innocence Project

The Innocent and the Death Penalty

Seventeen people have been proven innocent and exonerated by DNA testing in the United States after serving time on death row. They were convicted in 11 states and served a combined 209 years in prison – including 187 years on death row – for crimes they didn’t commit.

Kirk Bloodsworth served eight years in Maryland prison – including two years on death row – for a murder and rape he didn’t commit, before he was exonerated in 1993.

Rolando Cruz, and his co-defendant Alejandro Hernandez, served more than 10 years on Illinois death row for a murder they didn’t commit before DNA testing proved both men innocent in 1995.

Verneal Jimerson and Dennis Williams were sentenced to death in the infamous Ford Heights Four case in Illinois for a pair of 1978 murders they didn’t commit. Jimerson was cleared in 1995 after a decade on death row and Williams served more than 17 years on death row before he was freed in 1996.

Robert Miller spent nine years on Oklahoma’s death row for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before he was cleared by DNA testing in 1998.

Ron Williamson spent a decade on Oklahoma’s death row for a murder he didn’t commit before DNA testing secured by the Innocence Project proved him innocent in 1999. His co-defendant, Dennis Fritz, was sentenced to life and spent 11 years in prison before DNA cleared him as well.

Ronald Jones, an Innocence Project client, served a decade on Illinois death row for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence and led to his release in 1999.

Earl Washington, a Virginia man with limited mental capacity, was sentenced to death after he allegedly confessed to committing a 1982 murder he didn’t commit. He served a decade on death row, once coming within nine days of execution before receiving a stay. He would serve a total of 17 years behind bars before DNA testing obtained by the Innocence Project cleared him in 2000.

Frank Lee Smith died of cancer on Florida’s death row after serving 14 years for a murder and rape he didn’t commit. He was cleared by DNA testing obtained by the Innocence Project 11 months after his death.

Charles Irvin Fain served more than 17 years on death row in Idaho for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence in 2001.

Ray Krone served a decade in Arizona prison – including four years on death row – for a murder and rape he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence in 2002.

Nicholas Yarris served more than 21 years on Pennsylvania’s death row before DNA testing proved his innocence and led to his release in 2003.

Ryan Matthews served five years on Louisiana’s death row for a murder he didn’t commit before he was exonerated by DNA testing in 2004. His co-defendant, Travis Hayes, was sentenced to life in prison and served eight years before he was cleared in 2007.

Curtis McCarty served 21 years in Oklahoma prison – including nearly 18 years on death row – for a murder he didn’t commit before DNA tests secured by the Innocence Project led to his exoneration in 2007. He was convicted twice and sentenced to death three times based on forensic misconduct.

Kennedy Brewer, an Innocence Project client, served 15 years behind bars – including seven years on death row – for a murder and sexual assault he didn’t commit before DNA testing from 2001 finally led to his exoneration in 2008.

Michael Blair served 13 years on death row for a murder he didn’t commit before DNA testing obtained by his lawyers at the Innocence Project proved his innocence and led to his exoneration in 2008.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Cont...th_Penalty.php