Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Roubignol]

The Yugoslavian man told me a very wise remark (because it could be the same in our "democratic" countries): "As long as you didn't get involved in politics, life was nice."



@palo5

I'm glad to speak with a Russian man who knew the Soviet regime and who is not selected by an Occidental journalist.

I've got the following question.
Here in our Capitalist countries, money is the leader, the ultimate chief, the God. We believe that we are free and in a lot of way we are free as long as we have money.

I always was interested by communism or socialism about this "distance" to the money.

But I also was glad to say "Bye, I quit the job tomorrow" to my boss and immediatly go away if I worked for an asshole. (It really happened one time in my life)
Was it possible in Russia? Could you quit your enterprise, if your chief or too many colleagues were idiots or did you have to work for the enterprise until the end of your life?

Originally Posted by cginok

Using someone from Yugoslavia as your benchmark for communism is, quite frankly, wrong. Yugoslavia, though a communist country, was not under the boot heel of the USSR. The people in Yugoslavia had more freedoms, more openness, more access to Western people and goods, than the people in most other communist countries. Your Polish friend being proof of that.

Thank you for your remark. But when I read your comment, I also notice that there could be a good Communism. Isn't it?

And in the US question topic, Palo told us that KGB was not that efficient compared to the CIA or the NSA.
We always read and believed that Russians were spied day and night.
But we get the proofs that we "as free citizens of the world" are more "efficiently" spied than the Russians.
.

[costello]

Originally Posted by cginok

Using someone from Yugoslavia as your benchmark for communism is, quite frankly, wrong. Yugoslavia, though a communist country, was not under the boot heel of the USSR. The people in Yugoslavia had more freedoms, more openness, more access to Western people and goods, than the people in most other communist countries. Your Polish friend being proof of that.

I've always thought that the problem with communism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, laziness. No matter how little I work, or how little effort I put out, I'll still be taken care of. No, I might not live a life of luxury, but at least I'll have some form of housing with adequate food and health care to survive.

I've always thought that the problem with capitalism is that it caters to one of the most basic urges of humanity, greed. So what if I have 10 mansions, 3 private jets, and a fleet of Italian sports cars, I need another freakin' Ferrari damnit and I don't care if I have to destroy thousands of people's lives to get it!!!

As a venezuelan I totally agree with you in the second paragraph. The way I see it from my personal experience, communism has only worked for the lazy people who never cared to get a career or to improve their own ives by their own effort.

But I don't agree about your views about capitalism, that's the version of corporative capitalism from the US, but there's a healthy form of capitalism in which the free market improves the lives of the people while the rule of law will protect them from anyone who wants to crush them.

The scandinavian countries have mixed socialist policies with centre-right economics and they have achieved high standards of living.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I also was glad to say "Bye, I quit the job tomorrow" to my boss and immediatly go away if I worked for an asshole. (It really happened one time in my life)
Was it possible in Russia? Could you quit your enterprise, if your chief or too many colleagues were idiots or did you have to work for the enterprise until the end of your life?

Hehehe! Yes, but like in Japan, mostly you stayed in the same place, in the same job

Palo told us that KGB was not that efficient compared to the CIA or the NSA

I didn't. I said the West was told we were spied on day and night, and told you it wasn't true

We always read and believed that Russians were spied day and night.
But we get the proofs that we "as free citizens of the world" are more "efficiently" spied than the Russians.
.

That's what it looks like

[chris chunt]

They had to build a wall to keep people in .
Nuff said

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by chris chunt

They had to build a wall to keep people in .
Nuff said

At least the DDR paid for their own wall

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by palo5

I didn't. I said the West was told we were spied on day and night, and told you it wasn't true

I'm sorry if I wrongly understood when you wrote that the KGB .... only monitor and record 300 lines at a time. and then asked: "would you prefer the NSA system that can log all details permanently, or the KGB system with its great limitations?"

I understood that like the KGB was not as efficient as the NSA.

One more time... Sorry.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by chris chunt

They had to build a wall to keep people in .
Nuff said

Yep, but I've seen a TV documentary about the East German people after the fall of the wall.

There was a couple in which the husband dreamt to escape and to work to the Western part of Germany and his wife was "horrified" when the wall fell, because she felt totally unsecure to live in a such competitive society.

Her husband told he was glad to live in the Western Europe, but found more difficult that he could have expected.
The wife was still unhappy.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by chris chunt

They had to build a wall to keep people in .
Nuff said

The bloke in my avatar .... well known for support of the Democrat Party in the US and views that lean to the left, he visited East Berlin, his comment on the wall
“It was an offense to humanity.”

Originally Posted by cginok

Using someone from Yugoslavia as your benchmark for communism is, quite frankly, wrong. Yugoslavia, though a communist country, was not under the boot heel of the USSR. The people in Yugoslavia had more freedoms, more openness, more access to Western people and goods, than the people in most other communist countries. Your Polish friend being proof of that.

Yeah yeah, we all know I'm an Aussie, but half my bloodline is Croatian
I've heard some real nice stories from family members that lived under the old Yugoslavia and their dealings with the UDBA, the old state police. Freedoms my ass Just a comment against the state or communist party was enough for a visit from the police and time away from family. It was dressed up and neatened a little to make it seem more freindly but at it's core wasn't.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I'm sorry if I wrongly understood when you wrote that the KGB .... only monitor and record 300 lines at a time. and then asked: "would you prefer the NSA system that can log all details permanently, or the KGB system with its great limitations?"

I understood that like the KGB was not as efficient as the NSA.

Ok, but there's a 30 year time difference. The West was saying we were listening to everyone, when in fact we weren't. That was when USSR existed, which was a long time ago

The technology available today is digital, not analog. That's how we all communicate now, and why NSA (and everyone else) in theory can capture so much more

The point is, the West was lying about us listening to everyone. They wanted to make us look bad. But now the technology exists to do it for real, they use it themselves and their hypocrisy is exposed

[bowlinggreen]

Ironically, since communism fell in Eastern Europe and the former USSR, capitalism in the west has become more and more unrestrained, leading to a drop in the quality of life for many Americans. Those of us old enough to remember the Cold War from the 80s and earlier remember the constant barrage of propaganda about how the evil Soviets were hellbent on destroying our freedom and way of life. Hmmmm.

That said, I think I'd rather live in a state where the people in charge just want my money, rather then wanting to control what goes on inside my head and sending me off to the gulag for "thought crimes", should I feel like voicing any opinions about the shortcomings of their favored political system.

Although I suppose that if capitalism went far enough, they'd expect that from me as well in the end. Damn all power-mongers.