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Old 06-14-2015, 01:24 AM   #31
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BondJmsBond,

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Originally Posted by BondJmsBond View Post
They had to skip 9 because 7 8 it.

Very clever.
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Old 06-15-2015, 09:42 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by a435843 View Post
I came across a book length review of Windows 10, called Windows 10 Primer,
Thanks for the link. Having downloaded and read through it, the conclusion is that it is very MS centric and could have been published by them. There is little or no critical evaluation and everything about Win 10 is positive.

For an old desktop user, there doesn't seem to be any compelling reason to change from Win 7. Win 10 (like 8 and 8.1) seem to assume that we want to be connected all the time, use a touch screen, spend our time on social media, share everything with MS, etc.
Sorry, that is not my profile and this product was not created for me.
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:55 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JustMe21
When you get into your 70s you can tell me about it
I don't remember what making love to a woman is like. Does that count ? (LOL !)
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Old 06-16-2015, 05:46 AM   #34
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Misrule,

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Originally Posted by Misrule View Post
For an old desktop user, there doesn't seem to be any compelling reason to change from Win 7. Win 10 (like 8 and 8.1) seem to assume that we want to be connected all the time, use a touch screen, spend our time on social media, share everything with MS, etc.
Sorry, that is not my profile and this product was not created for me.
Having used 10 for a few days now, I've pretty much come to the same conclusion. So far, I don't see enough to keep me interested and I do see a lot I'm not interested in.

One real irritant revolves around the game Mahjong, which I like to play once in a while. It was a nice little time waster in 7. But it doesn't come by default with 10. You have to go to the Windows store and get it for free. I understand they want people to get used to going to the store but please?

Another problem is that every time you want to play the game, the game tries to sign you into the XBox website (I don't have an XBox and aren't planning on getting one) and then opens a webpage asking more about the XBox (not really sure what its asking for as the page is blocked by my security software).

So yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head. The OS might be good for teens and youngsters interested in the social media stuff, but if your not, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest here.

Still no BSODs though. At least thats good. But there are a bunch of little problems. MS still has a way to go before this is ready for prime time.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:59 AM   #35
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windows 8 is a complete dud thats why they went to 10 i have HEARD its very good but be
safe with the icon windows 7 wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-16-2015, 04:07 PM   #36
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After I overviewed the Windows 10 Primer that a435843 so generously provided (thank you again !), I am very much underwhelmed by Windows 10.

First and foremost if you are totally in bed with Microsoft products (Windows Phone, Xbox, cloud services) then you are probably doing cartwheels right about now. But for those of us with Android or iOS phones, Playstations, Google Apps, iPad etc. not so much. So all the additional "features" designed to make your Microsoft based life more integrated just sound like BLOATWARE to me since I frankly don't use any of these products and am highly unlikely to be swayed by smooth talk into buying them.

Secondly, it occurs to me that in order to provide a homogenous operating system environment Microsoft likely applied a "least common denominator" principle; i.e.,the Windows 10 features and performance on PCs will be sacrificed to insure that it runs smoothly on other platforms like Windows Phone and Xbox, instead of the other way round. This is borne out by a435843 comments concerning Spartan, the removal of the Control Panel and Devices features, and the rollout of Universal Apps.

I agree with Misrule that this document was no doubt commissioned by Microsoft, in much the same way the aforementioned "first look" document for Vista was no doubt also Redmond's handiwork. I have no doubt that as with the Vista rollout Microsoft will start hammering the hardware OEMs to stop making Windows 7 and 8 available to consumers in favor of 10. I remember with ire how during the "Vista Wars" Microsoft was loudly proclaiming it as "the best selling Windows ever", slickly ignoring the fact that they were counting not actual consumer purchases but new units shipped. Meanwhile the OEMs quietly broke ranks and continued offering consumers Windows XP as an option.

Microsoft's vision of the corporate environment to me is so flawed that I got a neck pain shaking my head. First, the idea that corporations have unlimited support resources to allow a Bring Your Own Device (BYOD) plutocracy is absolutely crazy. With media reports of security breaches both large and small an almost daily event, security administrations will be cutting off any potential risks. It's bad enough when a corporate executive has a secured, data encrypted laptop with company data stolen at an airport. Can you imagine a personal PC brought into the office, connected to corporate datashares, then taken home loaded with trade secrets ? How many home users have PCs that are actually 100% secure ? Yes, your Microsoft Windows and apps may be secure and up-to-date. But what about your Adobe Reader or Shockwave Player ? What about your copy of Oracle JavaScript ? Your non-Microsoft browsers ? Have you deinstalled apps you don't use anymore and probably haven't updated ?

At the pharmaceutical company I worked at we had our own "App Store" - TEN YEARS AGO ! Again, Microsoft comes to the table a day late and a dollar short. Our access to apps was controlled by strict permissions. If you needed a particular app to do your job and your department was willing to pay for the license you were given permission to install it. If the application was validated you might actually have to attend training before you were allowed this access.

Finally, if Microsoft's Single Sign On (SSO) model includes any backend connections to their cloud services, again I would be saying "Thanks, but NO THANKS" if I were a security administrator.

What I find comical about all of this is that Microsoft and other cloud service providers tout business continuity as a strong point on why you should use their services. In other words, by using the facilities of the cloud service provider all or in part you are more likely to avoid an interruption to business activities caused by a loss of computing and database services. But Microsoft's "vision" of a modern office computing environment seems to run counter to this logic. But of course it provides the foundation for buying MORE Microsoft products and services to manage the chaos that they are actually promoting.

Again, at the corporate level this is typical Microsoft: buy all our products and services and you'll have a smooth running, totally integrated computing environment. Yeah, sure. The same promises that IBM, Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC), and so many others made in the past. Looks like a new generation of suckers are falling for this whale s- - t all over again.

Ken Olsen, the founder, president and chairman of long defunct DEC once declared that "open systems" were irrelevant. I could understand his point: if you were using a single source for all your technology needs, chances are you didn't need open systems. Problem was then, as it is now, the technology world is not homogenous. The first big wave of change was when the world turned away from proprietary networking (so favored by the big technology companies of the day) and went to IP (TCP/IP) based "open standards" networking. The growth of the Internet would never have happened without this fundamental change. Companies that took stock of this change survived and prospered. Those that did not, like DEC were swept away. If Microsoft blunders with Windows by making it into a even more proprietary mis-mosh, then a real move to open standards based operating systems (read that Unix derived) may be in the offing. If I were Microsoft, I'd be working on porting Windows to work on top of a Unix based core OS.

The lesson is clear: give the people what they want, NOT what you're prepared to give them. The executives at DEC failed to learn this. Will Microsoft join them on the scrapheap ?

"May you live in interesting times......."

Last edited by Rick Danger; 06-16-2015 at 07:36 PM..
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Old 06-16-2015, 05:24 PM   #37
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I'm sticking with Windows 7 until they pry it from my cold dead hands.
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Old 06-16-2015, 08:39 PM   #38
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I was curious how Microsoft's other strategic product lines were doing, since Windows 10 cross-platform integration is their stated direction.

Amazing. Microsoft's strategy appears to tie the Windows franchise to two product lines (Windows Phone and Surface) that are underperforming the market while the third, the Xbox line is at least viable.

In a well researched Wikipedia article on Smartphones, statistics for sales and market share by operating system are quoted from Gartner Research:
Quote:
By operating system
Main article: Mobile operating system

The market has been dominated by the Android operating system since 2010. Android's market share (measured by units shipment) rose from 33.2% in Q4 2011 to 78.1% of the market in Q4 2013. Apple's market share oscillated between 15% to 20.9% during the same period. BlackBerry's market share fell from 14.3% in Q4 2011 to 0.6% in Q4 2013. Windows Mobile market share rose from 1.5% to 3% during the same time frame.[102]

As of the end of Q3 2014, Android was the most popular operating system, with a 84.4% market share, followed by iOS with 11.7%, Windows Phone with 2.9%, BlackBerry with 0.5% and all others with 0.6%.[103]
Concerning the heavily marketed Surface and Surface Pro tablet offerings:
Quote:
Sales

In March 2013, Bloomberg reported from inside sources that Surface sales were behind expectations, particularly the Surface RT. A total of 1.5 million Surface devices had been sold since launch, with Surface Pro accounting for 400,000 of these sales. Microsoft had originally projected sales of 2 million Surface units during the final quarter of 2012. However, the more expensive Surface Pro, with its Intel CPU that makes it a full-fledged Windows laptop PC, despite its compromises, was successful compared to other OEMs' Ultrabook hybrids which were larger and more expensive. As a result, the latest Surface Pro 3 has been targeting the premium ultra-mobile PC category including the MacBook Air.[1][2]

The poor sales of the Surface RT had been credited to the continuing market dominance of Microsoft's competitors in the tablet market. Particularly, Apple's iPad retained its dominance due its App store offering the most tablet-optimized applications. Most OEMs opted to produce tablets running Google Android, which came in a wide variety of sizes and prices (albeit with mixed success among most OEMs), and Google Play had the second-largest selection of tablet applications. By contrast there was a limited amount of software designed specifically for Surface RT's operating system, Windows RT, the selection which was even weaker than Windows Phone.[3] Indeed, OEMs reported that most customers felt Intel-based tablets were more appropriate for use in business environments, as they were compatible with the much more widely-available x86 programs while Windows RT was not.

In July 2013, Steve Ballmer revealed that the Surface RT hasn't sold as well as he hoped.[64] He reported that Microsoft had made a loss of US$900 million due to the lackluster sales of Surface RT; concurrently, Microsoft cut the price of Surface RT worldwide by 30%, with its U.S. price falling to US$350.[49][65][66][67] This was followed by a further price cut in August after it was revealed that even the marketing costs had exceed the sales.[68] On August 4, 2013, the cost of Surface Pro was cut by $100 giving it an entry price of $799. Several law firms sued Microsoft, accusing the company of misleading shareholders about sales of Surface RT, calling it an 'unmitigated disaster'.[69] In the first two years of sales Microsoft lost almost two billion dollars.[70]
While sales of the Surface line rose sharply in 2013, they dropped again in the first quarter of 2014. To be fair, the 1Q14 slump was probably a reset after brisk holiday sales, and it impacted other tablet brands across the board. But apparently Microsoft does not report Surface sales by units sold, only overall revenue for the line; a rather cute accounting trick. I will have to find some more recent data on how the Surface is trending.

According to the Wikipedia article, while the Surface hardware gains praise, the software leaves much to be desired. No doubt these comments are driving the strategy to have Windows 10 integrate Microsoft's various products:

Quote:
Reviews of Surface by critics have ranged broadly. The hardware received mostly positive reviews, while the software and overall experience were mixed. Wired reviewer Mathew Honan stated that while "This is one of the most exciting pieces of hardware I’ve ever used. It is extremely well-designed; meticulous even," the tablets are "likely to confuse many of Microsoft’s longtime customers".[52] TechCrunch,[53] Matt Buchanan at Buzzfeed,[54] and Gizmodo recommended against purchasing the tablet. Gizmodo mentioned issues such as the high price tag and described it as similar but inferior to the iPad, but also praised the hardware saying, "You'll appreciate it every time you pick it up and turn it on. It's a simple, joyful experience."[55] David Pogue at The New York Times praised the hardware but criticized the software.[56] The Verge described the technology as fulfilling the role of a laptop or tablet "half as well as other devices on the market," adding "the whole thing is honestly perplexing."[57] Warner Crocker from Gotta Be Mobile described it as "frustratingly confusing."[58] Farhad Manjoo of Slate noted that the "shortcomings are puzzling" given how much time Microsoft spent developing the device.[59] Neil McAllister has noted the lack of a compelling case to switch from the iPad to a Windows RT device at the same price point, because Apple already has a strong network effect from their app developers and few Windows developers have ported their offerings over to the ARM processor.[60]

It has worse battery life than similar devices.[61] The Surface Pro has shorter battery life than the Surface RT due in part to its full HD screen and Intel Core i5 processor.

Sales of the first generation Surface did not meet Microsoft's expectations, which led to price reductions and other sales incentives.[62][63]
Again, to be fair, no doubt Microsoft may have made progress with the Surface product line. But again, they obviously face an uphill battle in appealing to the consumer when compared to established Android or iOS products. The failed Zune media player should have been an object lesson that Redmond took to heart. So hitching Windows 10 to struggling Windows Phone and Surface products smells of desperation.

While the Xbox platform lags behind Sony's PlayStation and Nintendo's Wii, it has a solid niche and appears to be well respected. Interestingly with the Xbox One product Microsoft has moved away from the dedicated Xbox OS to Windows 8 (and soon Win 10). I will research if this move has impacted the experience of Xbox users.

Could a three legged horse win the Kentucky Derby ?
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Old 06-17-2015, 01:02 AM   #39
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a435843,

Quote:
Originally Posted by a435843 View Post
Now, this is what I expected from Microsoft. Every time you want to play Solitaire, a full-screen video advertisement pops up in Spartan for XBox, and then the game has an icon in the corner that says, "This Game of Solitaire is Sponsored by Age of Empires 37". No, this game of solitaire is sponsored by the $600 I paid for this damn laptop. I wonder what your security software was blocking...was it some sort of adware? Ugh.
Had to go back to the 7 drive this a.m. so I'm still using it atm. But I'll stick it back in in a little while and let you know where the site is trying to go. I'm pretty sure its some xbox advertisement.

Quote:
The push to get people to sign up for accounts for the simplest of tasks has got to stop too. MS is also dying for their little walled garden, like the one Apple & Google has, where they can nickel-and-dime you to death for crap like games that are worse than the ones that came with Windows 3.1. Windows users are too smart for that. Oh, and where they can ream developers like Apple & Google do; the problem with that is that Windows developers are too smart for that, too.

Much thanks for your insights. This is truly the worst of times for technology.
Agreed on this signing up for common stuff crap. If they keep that up they will lose a lot of customers.

Only one other observation from the last few days. And I guess its to be expected from MS. Can only think of one example off hand (the new, buried, location of the New Folder button in Explorer) but they (MS) don't seem to be making things easier. They seem to be making things harder to find. Why? What possible sense does that make?

Another example. Why in the world get rid of the Control Panel? Actually, its still there but its now called Settings and is available in a minimum of two clicks (Start button and then Settings). But why rename it now? Its been around since when? Win 3 or 3.1?

Are they thinking the shorter name is preferable? And people won't mind? Typical MS.
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Old 06-18-2015, 12:38 AM   #40
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a435843,

Finally put the 10 drive back in last night and checked the site windows want to go to every time I want to play Mahjong. Its going to an XBox website:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/

I probably misspoke about my security software blocking it. Probably just got tired of clicking out of it.

Not much else to report as I only played with it a bit last night and just got back on this evening. But there is one thing..... and its pretty important. Just after sticking the Win 10 HD back in the laptop the machine booted OK. But maybe a bit slower. Went to click the Start button and no go. It doesn't work. WTF! Start looking for a fix and discover lots of people are having the same problem. It just quits for no reason. Found an MS forum trying to help people and tried fixes on the first two pages. No luck. There were 8 or 10 more pages to go so maybe I'll try it again.

Or maybe not.
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