The Worst President In American History Poll

[scoundrel]

The events in Syria this week will have lasting effects and I am not sure that all of these effects will be bad. Mr Trump and Mr Putin aren't best pals anymore and I am fairly sure this is a good thing. Mr Putin may or may not have had prior knowledge that the Syrians intended to resume use of chemical weapons. BTW I am quite sure the Assad regime did it and it was intentional; the follow up strike on the hospital where the casualties were taken indicates a lot of intent. But Mr Putin's rather insulting and defiant insouscience about the chemical attack after it happened told us a great deal about how committed he is to the deal he and Mr Lavrov made with the Obama administration. I suspect that some of this is Mr Trump reminding the Russians that they just broke an important agreement.

1. We see now that Mr Trump is not a Russian poodle.
2. Mr Putin will see now that to whatever extent he did or didn't interefere in the American election campaign it is a fool's game to pick favourites to run the American government. He might well have been better off dealing with Hillary Clinton. To whatever extent he did or didn't interefere in the American election campaign, he will feel a bit more cautious about any similar doings next time.
3. Mr Putin will be more conscious that giving America the brush off when a similar incident such as a new chemical strike arises next time is not the smart play, not safe. Basically, he laughed at America up his sleeve and fairly publicly; but America is not the UK and America slaps people who laugh at her. This is something Mr Putin should not have needed to have shown to him by deeds but he seems to have become complacent and have needed a good slap.

We are in unpredictable territory now. Mr Putin can easily double down and make Mr Trump either raise the stakes or fold his hand. I do not think Mr Trump will fold his hand. I actually think Mr Trump is extremely steamed about the chemical weapons attack and I thought his comment about the murdered babies was significant. I think Syria touched a very raw nerve for Mr Trump and Mr Trump will not back off unless and until he is satisfied that Syria and Russia have accepted the point he is making.


Conversely, if Russia is willing to find ways to placate Mr Trump without appearing to knuckle under in any public way, this situation could be used by both sides to make some diplomatic progress. Arguments and falling-outs are a normal part of human relationships and can be very healthy as a clearing of the air. It is still possible for Mr Trump and Mr Putin to kiss and make up.

[Puhbear69]

The US - government is speaking once more about pushing Assad out of his function. Again without having a plan for the future.

One must not have much of fantasy, to predict what will happen than. Like in Iraq a never ending war will occur. The Sunits will have the majority. They are splitted in different fractions who will combat each other. Than the Alevi together with the Hezbolla who fight against the other groups.
At least the Kurdish together with some of the Sunits will be detached from Iraq and fight together against Turkey to a separate state.

By the way: Not all of the Sunits are against Assad. That's mainly the middle and east of Syria, with their (bad-) uneducated majority.

All between are the Christian groups.

Result will be a war zone for centuries, one better let the fingers off.

So sad it may be, a "Democracy" like in Europe or US will never work in Arab countries, when will the west of the world ever understand ??
They didn't had the period of Renaissance/Age of Enlightenment.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

The US - government is speaking once more about pushing Assad out of his function. Again without having a plan for the future.

As so often with the Trump administration the signals and messages are contradictory. Mr Trump himself has stated that ISIL remains the priority and that the basic policy has not changed, even though America detests President Assad and doesn't pretend not to. But he is very bad at declaring a policy and then sticking with it longer than the next cup of coffee.

I think this rocket strike on Syria is a statement concerning where the line is drawn. Russia thought it was safe to talk bollocks about the chemical attack and make her reply so implausible that it was clear that she was disrespecting America and her allies and wanted America and her allies to know that they were being disrespected. We can be fairly confident that the Putin government no longer labours under this misunderstanding. Mr Trump is a somewhat emotional chap and if you fuck with him, he isn't strong on self-control. Mr Putin needs to avoid needlessly annoying a man who has no compunction about using cruise missiles.

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

But he is very bad at declaring a policy and then sticking with it longer than the next cup of coffee.

Whoa! You saying he is being a politician? Cause that is what politicans do.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

Whoa! You saying he is being a politician? Cause that is what politicans do.

Most politicians are merely untrustworthy. Mr Trump is volatile and a few sandwiches short of a full picnic hamper.

[Puhbear69]

By the way, president Assad of Syria:

What has made him so "disliked" in the West ?
I mean of course before the "Arab Spring" 2011 appeared. Before Syria was destabilised by MI6 , CIA and the Turkish secret service and the opposition got armed..
He was already an ally in the second Gulf war at 2003 !
Before Syria (his father) was a stabiliser of the neighbour at the civil war of the Lebanon.

The other Arabic countries aren't even Democratic system too (polite paraphrased), and Syria was with their foreign politics more unobtrusive as far as I could remember.

So what made him so "disliked" in the West ?

One thought could be in my opinion, that the Russians are stationed in that Mediterranean See harbour, what bothers the NATO ?

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

By the way, president Assad of Syria:

What has made him so "disliked" in the West ?
I mean of course before the "Arab Spring" 2011 appeared. Before Syria was destabilised by MI6 , CIA and the Turkish secret service and the opposition got armed..
He was already an ally in the second Gulf war at 2003 !
Before Syria (his father) was a stabiliser of the neighbour at the civil war of the Lebanon.

The other Arabic countries aren't even Democratic system too (polite paraphrased), and Syria was with their foreign politics more unobtrusive as far as I could remember.

So what made him so "disliked" in the West ?

One thought could be in my opinion, that the Russians are stationed in that Mediterranean See harbour, what bothers the NATO ?

In fairness, Puh, there is a lot not to like about President Assad. This man attacks his own countrymen with Sarin, one of the cruellest poisons around, and lest we forget, it was Assad Senior whose secret police tried to bomb the El Al flight at Heathrow in 1985. I used to work with a man who was on that flight; so I am not frightfully keen to endorse the previous President Assad as a force for stability.

Of course the US government is being hypocritical. There was no desire to depose Saddam Hussain after the gas attack on the Kurds in 1988. At the time he was fighting Iran and the western countries had a strategic interest in keeping him where he was.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

In fairness, Puh, there is a lot not to like about President Assad. This man attacks his own countrymen with Sarin, one of the cruellest poisons around, and lest we forget, it was Assad Senior whose secret police tried to bomb the El Al flight at Heathrow in 1985. I used to work with a man who was on that flight; so I am not frightfully keen to endorse the previous President Assad as a force for stability.

[....]

Thanks for your replay.
I'm not a friend of Assad Jr. nor Putin too, believe me.
I meant before this situation we have now escalated.

But ... I strongly believe too, without him that country would implode - civil war for centuries(!) what I'm having described some posts before. 'Palo' told me in a post or in a PM, that Germany sold the light NVA (Eastern-) weapons in the '90 to Syria. Supposedly they got destroyed here with a big hoo-ha!
With Assad there was no agitation against the Christian minority; and not all Sunnis are against him. Assad Jr. was the great bearer of hope as he got into charge ~ 2008.
During the Arab - Spring at 2011 the country got destabilised by MI6 , CIA and the Turkish secret service and the opposition got armed.

WHY ???



U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and his wife having an intimate dinner with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his wife in 2009


We can see, what destabilizing of those Arabic countries does (Turkey is straight marching in the different direction); best example is Libya.
Except the Yemen all the countries applying as stable at the Arabic peninsular. Those Arabic countries aren't even Democratic system too (polite paraphrased).
What is the worth of 'Democracy' in those countries, one can see at the example of Egypt, as the Egypt voters in majority voted for an "Islamist" president.

[therx9x]

Why have a vote or a poll where the results are impossible to see?

I'm serious.


Perhaps it should be restarted now that Trump's had a chance to show his true colors.... I'd assume that it would be him in a landslide here but you never know...

Oh yeah... Hard to say that Assad fits here unless every president of every country since 1789 fits as well...

[SanteeFats]

Peeples this thread is about American POTUS's and which one posters believe is/was the worst. The Assad posts should have been posted else where not here. But they are here and will stand but no more please.