Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by palo5

Krasnojarsk is mild. It's a nice city, actually, but I guess the prisoners don't see much of it. Prisoners all over the world have to work, it's nothing unusual. If they still had them working in mines in places like Norilsk, it would be newsworthy. That is a truly horrible place, and it's much colder

Norilsk looks pretty bleak. It must be a horrible place, because according to Wikipedia, it is now closed to most non-Russians.

That must be another one of those weird Russian things, closing off whole cities to foreigners. I read somewhere that in the old days, Russians were even prohibited from having coherent maps of the country, maybe to prevent them escaping the workers paradise? I trust things have improved in that department, now that everyone has cell phones and such?

Do you still need internal passports to travel from place to place, if you are going very far?

I couldn't imagine living like that. Here in the USA, you want to go to California, or New York, or Bumfuck, Mississippi, you just take a peek at your atlas, paper or digital, hop into your car and go. No one will stop you.

Originally Posted by cginok

Define "mild?" To people from northern climes, anything this side of freezing is mild. To those of us from southern climes, anything this side of 65F/20C is mild.

That would depend on where you are used to living. I imagine that penal colony has close to the same climate as my neck of the woods, judging from the pics. It's hot here in the summer, but it can get real cold here in the winter. We get cold snaps of below zero Fahrenheit on a regular basis. I remember as a kid it used to get colder. We haven't had any REAL cold (like 30 below zero Fahrenheit) for awhile. To a Russian that is probably mild.

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Hmmm... It was an excellent idea.
Every people who had a mother or a father alcoholic will tell you how bad alcohol is.
How many life would be saved without this bad and dangerous product?

It's not enough to come for the ribeyes, now you are after the single malt too?

[george anson]

Inherently it's a decent system.

The problem is human nature. By that some individual or individuals will seek to impose their own view on others, interpret the ideas for their own gain and crush any who they see opposing them.

One looks at the Kronstadt rebellion. That was the direction Communism should have gone in but the desire for power generally brings the worst people to the top. My way or the high way.

It would be nice to have a far more equitable society. One which would see a reduction in crime no doubt and this chasing the tail mentality of many.

Only a few leaders in history have actively cared about their subjects and had the force of will to remove others or groups of others who have had vested interests of maintaining the status quo for a select few. Someone like Valentinian.

Capitalism particularly it's rabid form and the joke of trickle down economics is no better. Socially divisive and environmentally destructive. How many brands of such and such a product do we need ? It's infected people with the idea that your worth is based on the money you earn, the objects you own no matter how you earned it.

It is shocking to see the gross inequality between a very small minority and the vast majority. It is appalling to see the damage done to this planet. It is also shocking to see the repression and cruelty of many so called Communist regimes. In particular the horrific rule of Stalin one of the most evil men to have ever lived.

In time perhaps with a need for solar exploration and beyond we can move on from both systems and come to a point where everyone is treated fairly and is well looked after and have the chance to succeed in their chosen field.

[brk549]

Any system that lets many have some control over their lives will always be better than a system that lets a few control it.You will never do away with inequality,man may have been created equal but nothing guarantees they stay that way as they go through life.Promising more and more for doing less and less makes that a sure thing.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Hmmm... It was an excellent idea.
Every people who had a mother or a father alcoholic will tell you how bad alcohol is.
How many life would be saved without this bad and dangerous product?

I certainly understand your point. But it's not that simple, because when you try to restrict or ban alcohol, people will either a) make it themselves, which can kill more people faster, or b) they'll smuggle it, as during Prohibition, and you'll create a new class of organized crime

In both cases, you'll lose tax revenue as well, so clearly this is not the right approach

[palo5]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Norilsk looks pretty bleak. It must be a horrible place, because according to Wikipedia, it is now closed to most non-Russians.

That must be another one of those weird Russian things, closing off whole cities to foreigners. I read somewhere that in the old days, Russians were even prohibited from having coherent maps of the country, maybe to prevent them escaping the workers paradise? I trust things have improved in that department, now that everyone has cell phones and such?

Do you still need internal passports to travel from place to place, if you are going very far?

I couldn't imagine living like that. Here in the USA

Yes, some quite big regions were closed to everyone who didn't live or work there. Might seem a difficult concept to accept, but all modern states have restricted areas -- think Area 51 -- you can't go in defense-related establishments anywhere, unless they have "open-days"

So far as I know, internal travel permits do not exist anymore, unless you're under house-arrest or something similar

[brk549]

Palo,have you been to Kursk or any of the big battlefields?I've heard a lot of the knocked out tanks are still there.Not the place to ask but I'm just wondering.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by brk549

Palo,have you been to Kursk or any of the big battlefields?I've heard a lot of the knocked out tanks are still there.Not the place to ask but I'm just wondering.

No, I haven't been to any big battlefields, unless Leningrad, Moscow & Berlin count. But those cities have been rebuilt. The Kursk battle was fought over a large area, but the main tank battles were around Prochorovka. Most of it is gone, because they had to clear mines & unexploded stuff etc. But I completely believe you can still find war equipment there. I'm certain you'll find a lot in the Pripyat marshes in Belarus from 1944. There are also many keen amateurs who search in Courland (the boob-shaped part of Latvia & Lithuania) and consistently find SS-material

There are always people interested in this, and you can find & contact them on the web. They welcome like-minded people. But if you go there, be sure to have a local contact, and effective mosquito-repellent

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by palo5

but the main tank battles were around Prochorovka. Most of it is gone, because they had to clear mines & unexploded stuff etc. But I completely believe you can still find war equipment there.

There are always people interested in this, and you can find & contact them on the web.

Those damned Commies made some good tanks.

There are vids on You Tube of Russian guys getting old T34s going with nothing more than a hammer, a crowbar, an adjustable spanner and an ample supply of cigarettes and Soviet curses

[palo5]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

Those damned Commies made some good tanks

I know, but they're not much use, unless you have good people inside them

Fortunately, we did. That's why the war was won

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by palo5

I certainly understand your point. But it's not that simple, because when you try to restrict or ban alcohol, people will either a) make it themselves, which can kill more people faster, or b) they'll smuggle it, as during Prohibition, and you'll create a new class of organized crime

Actually both things happened during Prohibition, you also left out the corruption of law enforcement and possibly the government as the profits grow...