Legalize that Obnoxious Weed?

[BinLadenSucks]

Sounds like I really stirred the "pot" here.
(Sorry..That was a bad joke.)

Originally Posted by 9876543210

When he got out he couldn't find a job (nobody would hire him) so he went back to selling the weed to support himself. Got caught again and went back to prison. This time with a longer sentence.

Parole violation? Prior records? Any other factors involved? I think it would only be responsible clarify these issues when posting such.

Originally Posted by 9876543210

Believe it or not there is data suggesting many people are much more creative under the influence of weed (I can remember thinking the same when I smoked 30 years ago). I'm pretty sure that was focused on in Dr. Sanjay Gupta's CNN documentary I mentioned a while ago. He cites several studies.

Creative or productive. I know they are closely related but each have their own meaning. I'm being creative hear on this forum but I really wouldn't consider it productive.

I try to watch who sources the information. What audience are they trying to attract. Political motivations. CNN - "Pro Weed" Fox News - "Anti Weed". That's why I chose to leave out these sources of information on both sides.

Originally Posted by 9876543210

But the main point is that marijuana is a relaxant which everyone, in one way or another, needs. Some people use pot, others use alcohol, a nap, music or whatever. The point is that it helps people to relax (I usually prefer a nice glass of scotch at the end of a day), and a culture that can relax should be able to return to business when needed.

I almost didn't respond to this, but it is possible that you only read what struck out to you within my posts and that you didn't read them thoroughly. Please read the bottom of my last post. The first paragraph that is highlighted. I think you can also find your answer in two of my other posts.

Plus there is the bigger picture in this....Yes alcohol is good, but look at what it has done to families and such....And on and on and on it goes.

A tidbit about posting on issues like these. Keefriff has done it well. It's not wise to slam anothers viewpoint. Even politicians know this when they are trying to get bills passed. You'll lose support and the bill will quickly dies. Something you might want to keep in mind if you'd like to legalize marijuana.

[BinLadenSucks]

Damn...Thought I was off the hook...Oh well

Originally Posted by keefriff

I understand that. My counter to that is that at one time marijuana was legal. It was criminalized in the early 1900's. Marijuana has never had the popularity of alcohol or the history in the West as a recreational drug so less demand has always been the case. Less demand, less users equals less to no outrage in the 1900's when it is started to be made illegal. As time has gone on and it's popularity has increased more users are now demanding their rights.

Are we concluding that the "Prohibition act" does not apply? That this would be more of a rights issue for marijuana? I find that fair and worthy of discussion. As mentioned before I am truly concerned about your rights.

Originally Posted by keefriff

Okay. I will agree that any drug use amongst teens is not good on any level. I would also agree that we waste money on education. But the reasons are a lot bigger than drugs as to why the US lags in scholastic rankings and I know you know that. It's a bigger issue than can be discussed here. I think what I was trying to say was that certain European/Western countries seem to take a very different approach to drug abuse. They treat it as a social/health problem and not a criminal problem. I would contend that if the US would spend their money on drug education, drug regulation and drug rehabilitation they would have more success and do a better job of educating their young and society as a whole.-------------
------The War on Drugs has been going on for over 40 years. IMO, I have seen little progress. More drugs are available than ever. Prices are lower than ever. Pharmaceuticals and synthetics are on the rise. Heroin is making a resurgence on the heels of pharmaceutical addictions. Marijuana is stronger and more available than ever. To say that a slight dip in the early 90's is an indication of success is like saying the US won the Iraq War because we controlled Fallujah 18 months ago. The War on Drugs as currently being fought is a failure. It is not working. So we spend and spend and spend and nothing changes. Just like the other things you mentioned such as healthcare and education, a new approach is needed.

Sorry to take liberty and merge these but I think they coincide plus saves webspace.

I don't think the dip in the '90's was slight, I think that it was an indication. Again, as mentioned before I though it to be due to "Drug Awareness" and not so much border enforcement. We've already discussed the efficiencies of government and that they need to be changed. I hope that you wouldn't indicate dropping all drug enforcement entirely.

Here I think we may have common ground. I am glad to have seen you post on teen drug abuse. Maybe we could find more ground if government focused more on drug awareness rather the enforcement issues? It seemed to have an effect in the 90's.

Originally Posted by keefriff

You smoke cigarettes yet are against marijuana legalization. Your proven cancer causing, government subsidized, highly taxed, physically addicting vice is okay for you but heaven forbid the stupid stoners get their way. The irony is rich.

Come on keefriff. Where on Earth did I say that Tobacco was a good thing. I think my first post said that it was a bad thing. I'm thinking that it's kind of irresponsible of you to claim such. Claims like that can lose a lot of respect. Plus as I had stated before. Does having two bad things justify having another?

I had never once said that my addicting vice is OK. But Here I'm am reading in this thread that smoking pot (Many claim addictive) is OK. Be careful with the Irony thing. Claims like that can make me lose a lot of respect
(Yes...Lot's of contradiction about it being addictive.)

Did I claim to support tobacco? Make a thread about how bad Tobacco is and you will have my %100 support.

Originally Posted by keefriff

I have a better suggestion. Find a black male between the ages of 16-40 living in an urban or suburban area and ask him if he has been stopped by the police and frisked/searched under dubious circumstances. Ask a few black men and see what they say. I think you will see quickly why their rates are higher for possession arrests.

So far....I have been seeing this as a issue of race, which is worthy. But I need to focus at the topic at hand for now.

Originally Posted by keefriff

Or better yet a drug addict got 20 years for his third possession of heroin. 20 years while the guy who molests kids or robs banks or embezzles millions of dollars get 5-10. How is this good for society?

Yes...Legal issues....Thought we had found some agreement there and agree they are pretty messed up.

Originally Posted by keefriff

I would say that the postwar 40's and 50's were an idyllic time for the US. Idyllic and repressive and the 60's were the result of that. If marijuana smoking helped further the cause of the revolutionary movements of the 60's like civil rights, women's' rights, peace movement, the eco-movement then it's a damn good thing in my book. America was not going to be Leave It To Beaver for the rest of eternity and thank God for that. It was not representative of the whole and it was unrealistic and dare I say....bland as hell.

Well...Think I'd rather watch Leave it to Beaver over the Kardasiens, but that could be considered to ones taste.

Yes...Stated that some good came out of it and it was probably needed. these things are good and I could've indicated more but already took almost half a webpage with my post. I never cared for Leave it to Beaver, but let's not lose all things we've gained in time. Many complain how we are losing our morals...Let's not totally dismiss ones that we've had. But as stated...I wouldn't want it to be as uptight as it was.

Originally Posted by keefriff

Thank you. Converting America one VEF member at a time.

You've made some steps.

This really has no reflection on you Keefriff. But just this thread more as a whole.

I think most of my posts have indicated that I do want to see users have there freedom. Yet I find myself having to reemphasize it in all of my posts. I express my concerns on the effects on our youth. But find little responses to ease that concern. Mainly posts that want their rights.

What should I to gather from that? What kind of impression does it leave me with? What do I convey to my friends who express the same concerns as I?

I would not want to express to them that users are "mainly" just interested in their right to use.

Thanks again Keefriff...I'm still concerned about your rights

[keefriff]

Originally Posted by BinLadenSucks

Come on keefriff. Where on Earth did I say that Tobacco was a good thing. I think my first post said that it was a bad thing. I'm thinking that it's kind of irresponsible of you to claim such. Claims like that can lose a lot of respect. Plus as I had stated before. Does having two bad things justify having another?

I had never once said that my addicting vice is OK. But Here I'm am reading in this thread that smoking pot (Many claim addictive) is OK. Be careful with the Irony thing. Claims like that can make me lose a lot of respect
(Yes...Lot's of contradiction about it being addictive.)

Did I claim to support tobacco? Make a thread about how bad Tobacco is and you will have my %100 support.

I didn't mean that you thought tobacco was okay in the sense that it is a benign substance or somehow good for you. I was merely pointing out that your pleasure/vice, which has many detrimental affects, is allowed while mine, which has many detrimental affects, is not. I am not saying either is good for you. I am saying that adults should be able to choose what they put into their bodies. You are allowed to smoke for pleasure despite the health and societal damage while I am not. It just doesn't seem fair to me.

[BinLadenSucks]

No...I still didn't see that in your post. You had stated that I was OK with tobacco use. I am not.

Are you asking that we should have the right to put all drugs into our systems?

Legalize all drugs?

[winebeavis]

I'm okay with decriminalizing all recreational drugs. Not the same as legalizing. If Philip Seymour Hoffman wants to lock his ass in a room and OD, more power to him. If my neighbor feels like sniffing a line of coke in the privacy of his own house every now and then, that's his business, not mine.

I'd rather spend the money that is spent fighting and prosecuting on treatment and education. All we have to do is look to what has worked in other places. The Dutch have managed to make smoking weed an uncool thing that foreigners do while they reap the profits from it. You'll also notice that by most accounts they have a better handle on hard drugs in comparison to the U.S.

So far Portugal isn't having any of the problems that the U.S. claimed would happen when they decriminalized most hard drugs. It seemed easier to get a handle on. http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-891060.html Portugal has some of the lowest usage rates in western Europe.

[BinLadenSucks]

Originally Posted by winebeavis

I'm okay with decriminalizing all recreational drugs. Not the same as legalizing. If Philip Seymour Hoffman wants to lock his ass in a room and OD, more power to him. If my neighbor feels like sniffing a line of coke in the privacy of his own house every now and then, that's his business, not mine.

I'd rather spend the money that is spent fighting and prosecuting on treatment and education. All we have to do is look to what has worked in other places. The Dutch have managed to make smoking weed an uncool thing that foreigners do while they reap the profits from it. You'll also notice that by most accounts they have a better handle on hard drugs in comparison to the U.S.

So far Portugal isn't having any of the problems that the U.S. claimed would happen when they decriminalized most hard drugs. It seemed easier to get a handle on. http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-891060.html Portugal has some of the lowest usage rates in western Europe.

Thanks for the input winebeavis...Btw I'm a big fan of Beavis and Butthead...been wanting to say that for awhile.

I was kinda waiting for Keefriffs response...

Anyhow.....As it stands for me now...And this is just my viewpoint. I think that decriminalization on all drugs would be too much to chew for now. I think it would be fast tracked to legalization.

My concern with that is 20-30 years from now, If it had devastating effects it maybe too irreversible. I would be too scared to take that risk. Sorry but for now the general public wouldn't go for it yet.

At least marijuana could be a good "Test Bed".

Yes...One side screams "Kaos" while the other "Paradise".

Portugal is a much smaller and somewhat different country with different issues. But is most definitely worth looking at. Thanks on the portugal link

[keefriff]

Originally Posted by BinLadenSucks

No...I still didn't see that in your post. You had stated that I was OK with tobacco use. I am not.

Then why don't we make tobacco illegal?

I was trying to say that you seem to be okay with the fact that it is legal. That is all. I am not saying you endorse tobacco. I am saying that it seems to be okay with you that it is legal.

Originally Posted by BinLadenSucks

Are you asking that we should have the right to put all drugs into our systems?

Legalize all drugs?

Well I may not go as far as to say that I would legalize all drugs but I will say that if an individual chooses to shoot heroin or do whatever else, that is the individuals choice. I might decriminalize all drugs because no government entity will ever be able to prevent an individual from doing drugs if they choose to. The individual has the choice and that will never change despite what the government tries to do. While keeping drugs illegal may prevent some use, if a person has gotten to the point where they want to shoot heroin, the legality of it doesn't matter.

[BinLadenSucks]

Whew...I was really scared the for a moment...I thought we'd lost our communication.

If there was a ballot to legalize pot or tobacco. I would probably choose pot. Tobacco has too much health damaging effects and is far more addictive.

The problem is....That tobacco is legal and pot isn't. That doesn't make it right.Sadly it just makes it what it is.

I'm glad that you stated "Not All Drugs" so we still have somethings in common.

[winebeavis]

All this talking about pot makes me want to try it.

[BinLadenSucks]

I'm guessing that you were busy and posted before my comments to Winebeavis. But I would like to emphasize on that some more.

Our country is huge and has it's own unique issues. It is complex as well as it is diverse.

If we were to pass heroine into our culture we wouldn't know the true effects on our culture until 30 or so years from now. (Similar to pot.) If it were negative...How could we remove it?

We would be stuck with it just like we are stuck on tobacco. Could we remove move it...No we tried that with alcohol prohibition.

That is what scares me about these issues. Once they're introduced into our culture, they really can't be reversed if it fails.

It's a pretty big responsibility.