Current or modern politics in the United States

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by vannax

I ask this in all seriousness: What's worse: Islam or the KKK?
Before you answer, look at body counts.

Worse in what way? And wouldn't the better comparison be between Christianity and being that they are both major, monotheistic religions?

[vannax]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

Just for clarification, one reason that I hadn't posted about this earlier is that I cannot be certain of the credibility of the reporting sites. Secondly, the thought that officials would betray their oaths, all principles of fairness, and the fundamental ideals on which this nation is founded saddens me to the point of despair. I struggle enough with depression through the winter months without having to think about such disgusting things. If these allegations are true, al-qaeda and Daesh are right - we do deserve to be destroyed.

The fundamental ideals upon which the nation is founded are embodied in the Bill of Rights, aka the 1st 10 amendments.
Can't say "Blacks and gays not welcome", then kiss the 1st amendment goodbye.
Can't buy a Tommy gun at the hardware store? Then kiss the 2A goodbye.
The state can see your emails or listen to your phone calls without a warrant? Kiss the 4A goodbye.

It is the left, fostering self-hatred of all things western that is destroying our civilization.
They hate "the patriarchy", "white privilege", "the rich", + they hate freedom of speech, the right to bear arms, freedom of assembly, all forms of economic freedoms...

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

Worse in what way? And wouldn't the better comparison be between Christianity and being that they are both major, monotheistic religions?

Other than the violent suppressions of the pagans and Arians, forced conversions throughout Eastern Europe, the corruption of the medieval clergy, the crusades, regular massacres of Jews in pogroms, the Reformation, the Inquisition, the French religious wars, the various religious wars and persecutions that followed the Reformation, and the wholesale slaughter of the native "infidel" populations of the Americas, Christianity has been a a peaceful and tolerant religion.

[vannax]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

Worse in what way? And wouldn't the better comparison be between Christianity and being that they are both major, monotheistic religions?

Well then, may as well compare the Democrats with the NAZI's, as they are both socialist political parties.
Or compare stealing cars with serial killing, as they are both indictable offenses.

So, which is worse, Islam or the KKK?
Worse in which way? Let's be simple and say the amount of people they've killed in the last decade, the amount of women they've raped, the number og gays they've executed, the number of apostates they've executed, the number of infidels they've executed,the amount of acid thrown in little girls faces, etc.

Asia Bibi in Pakistan comes to mind. So does Isis, the Al-Nusra front, Al-qaeda, Boko Haram, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, and countless other groups that share one thing...a certain ideology.

[vannax]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

Other than the violent suppressions of the pagans and Arians, forced conversions throughout Eastern Europe, the corruption of the medieval clergy, the crusades, regular massacres of Jews in pogroms, the Reformation, the Inquisition, the French religious wars, the various religious wars and persecutions that followed the Reformation, and the wholesale slaughter of the native "infidel" populations of the Americas, Christianity has been a a peaceful and tolerant religion.

Wow.
The reformation as a bad thing.
There are more Native American "infidels" now than when the white man got here.
Look at body counts.
Look at all the Churches, Jews, and atheists just thriving in the Islamic world, unlike here among the evil Christians, where we behead folk for mocking Jesus.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by vannax

It is the left, fostering self-hatred of all things western that is destroying our civilization.
They hate "the patriarchy", "white privilege", "the rich", + they hate freedom of speech, the right to bear arms, freedom of assembly, all forms of economic freedoms...

There are extremists and idiots on both ends of the spectrum. Many of us on the left want to see our country actually live by its ideals, meaning a reasonably fair and level playing field for all. We believe in freedom of speech and the press for all - not just conservatives and corporations. We find it unnerving that the middle class is being taxed out of existence while the very wealthy pay virtually no taxes. Admittedly, my position on the 2nd Amendment is at odds with most of my misguided brethren on the left and that there are PC fools that are unclear that freedom of speech means hearing what you may not like. You certainly can't argue that the knuckleheads whoopin' and hollerin' in the streets these days don't believe in free speech or the right of assembly. Yes, there are socialists on the left. But there are also those of us who believe that small business is the lifeblood of our economy and are appalled that entrepreneurs are heavily regulated, taxed and starved for capital while huge corporations stifle competition and divert enormous profits into the pockets of a few executives.

And what makes you think that we are not appalled at the ramping up of secrecy and violations of our Fourth Amendment rights that began with the Patriot Act and increased during the Obama Administration? It seems to me that our elected representatives of both parties have betrayed us.

Originally Posted by vannax

Wow.
The reformation as a bad thing.
There are more Native American "infidels" now than when the white man got here.
Look at body counts.
Look at all the Churches, Jews, and atheists just thriving in the Islamic world, unlike here among the evil Christians, where we behead folk for mocking Jesus.

It appears you are misunderstanding the drift of my argument. There is no doubt that the Papacy and its allied monarchs instigated the rounds of bloody repressions of dissenters even before Martin Luther.

Sorry, but I was raised in the Catholic Church and have studied a lot of history since then. Christianity has mellowed since the 17th century slaughter convinced all sects that conscience is an individual matter. Well, maybe not all as our fundamentalist brothers seemed to be of the old school. Remember Christians have a 600 year head start on Muslims, but the first 1900 years resulted in major body counts. The Shiite vs Sunni bloodshed has been mirrored in violent suppressions of heresies, the "Great Schism," and finally the Reformation. Even today, Putin is positioning Russia as the major defender of the Christian faith. I am sure that you have some inkling of what traditional czarist notions of toleration for religious differences look like.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by vannax

Evidently the difference between a strong government and a large government eludes you.

Imagine what King Henry would have done to George Soros, or anyone trying to get the currency off a stable standard(like gold), you know, like all western governments have done?

Just as a matter of interest, Vannax, do you think it is remotely feasible to run any economy on the gold standard?

[vannax]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Just as a matter of interest, Vannax, do you think it is remotely feasible to run any economy on the gold standard?

As many economies have run on the gold standard in the past, yes I do.
The fact that there ain't enough gold in the world to make up for all the fiat cash circulating notwithstanding.
There are other real things that money could be based upon, other than faith, such as say, labor, or oil, or coal, or iridium, or silver, or shares in a company, or all of the above. A diversification of stably-backed currency would be a good hedge against a great number of the problems that plague fiat cash, as a matter of fact.
It's ironic that people who claim to be atheists actually promote economies and media of exchange based entirely upon faith.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by vannax

As many economies have run on the gold standard in the past, yes I do.
The fact that there ain't enough gold in the world to make up for all the fiat cash circulating notwithstanding.
There are other real things that money could be based upon, other than faith, such as say, labor, or oil, or coal, or iridium, or silver, or shares in a company, or all of the above. A diversification of stably-backed currency would be a good hedge against a great number of the problems that plague fiat cash, as a matter of fact.
It's ironic that people who claim to be atheists actually promote economies and media of exchange based entirely upon faith.

I once visited the Jorvik Museum in York and when you have done the tour of the archeological remains and the reconstruction of the Viking community they found, one of the things you can do afterwards is to have your own Viking coin struck. The original die didn't come from the Jorvik Museum, but there was a coin mint in York, the only one north of the River Humber: the coin I think bears the hammer and sword symbol which was unique to King Eric Bloodaxe. They strike the coin in pewter of course rather than the silver penny which King Eric would have been issuing.

Even way back then, government controlled the money supply. They can date the events which led to the fall of Roman rule in Britain by the coinage because the Romans had a sophisticated coinage which modern western minting strongly follows, with the head of the Emperor on the coin and the datum year on the coin. There are no hoards of Roman coins ever found in Britain dated after AD 402, so we know that AD 402 or perhaps early in AD 403 is the last time the boys got paid. The Roman legions departed in AD 407 to support their own commander in a failed campaign in France intended to depose Emperor Honorius and it is logical to deduce that they were in mutiny because they had not been paid for at least four and a half years.

To bring ourselves forward in time, the USA has an enormous military-industrial complex. Some of us outside the USA are starting to suspect that her foreign policy is being malevolently influenced by people who profit at the expense of everyone else when the country is at war. The recent interventions, especially in Syria, do not make even bad sense unless a state of conflict has become a desireable end in itself. Although I deplore the choice of Mr Trump as president, not everything he says is stupid, and provided he does not decide to throw out the NATO baby with the bathwater, a complete overhaul of America's relationship with Russia is almost certainly an opportunity rather than a threat. The outgoing Obama adminstration and the Bush 43 administration before that has played silly games in the middle east for long enough.

Dinnae meddle with things ye ken naething aboot! ~ owner of horse to James Herriot when he was a vetenary student in Glasgow, early chapter of If Only They Could Talk.

The problem you might encounter if the USA ever abolished fiat money would be paying the troops. This includes paying the likes of Lockheed Martin and other MIC supplier corporations. Far more than the much maligned recipients of "entitlements", these are the Old Men of the Sea. If Mr Trump seriously implements a reboot of America's foreign and military policy, these corporations will in many cases be facing an existential threat to their business model. JFK was murdered for a lot less than that.

[BustyWomenLovr]

Originally Posted by vannax

It is the left, fostering self-hatred of all things western that is destroying our civilization.
They hate "the patriarchy", "white privilege", "the rich", + they hate freedom of speech, the right to bear arms, freedom of assembly, all forms of economic freedoms...

Oh just total BS.