Windows 10?

[Ernesto75]

Friends, this is some kind of bad news.

An hour ago I read a technical letter on the Internet.

It seems Microsoft's CEO is a (very, very) stubborn person.

In spite of all protests it seems Microsoft intends of increasing the forced upgrades for the year 2016.

In 2016 the level of urgency for the downloads of Windows 10 will be raised to the highest level.

They take as an excuse the actual number of the downloads in a short time.

But they do not say this comprises forced downloads by people who did not want it.

I am really disgusted.

[m100]

ok i'm willing to show my niaivety. I can see how they can download windows 10 to your machine if you download those updates that have been mentioned. But i can't see how they can download against your will that must open them up to legal action. Maybe they are planning on hiding the download seeds in other updates which really would suggest strongly that the motivation behind all this is tracking everyones usage.

[Misrule]

They are going to reclassify Win10 download as a "Recommended" update instead of an "Optional" update. Depending on your Windows Update settings, that will download and install the software. However, they claim you still have to actually accept the installation twice - once for the EULA and one other occasion.

The best defence is to change you Windows Update settings, IMHO.

[Ernesto75]

Here is the GWX Control Panel windows I had working on my machine five minutes ago.
I took the advice of a435843 and I installed it.



It tells me the Windows 10 app is installed but it is neutralized.

For the moment it can do no harm.
It was installed against my volition but I keep it nevertheless just in case.

And Misrule is right: Microsoft is going to reclassify the famous downloads raising their level from 'Optional' to 'Important'.

That means when your proposed downloads are tagged as 'Important' you are getting not only the code that is vital to your security but also you are getting Windows 10 if you are not careful with what you download and what you leave.

[m100]

my update policy for years has been to manually check for updates. That will remain the case with the addition of checking on here and elsewhere against every update classified as important (all other categories can go jump off a cliff)

i wonder how long before microsoft exerts some influence with the big anti-virus providers to try to get GWX classified as malware or a virus if it's going to prevent the expansion of world domination enterprises inc.

[Ernesto75]

I do not rely only on GWX Control Panel.

That plus the 'DisableOSUpgrade' mention in my Registry.

And of course I manually check what are the upgrades one by one.

My download options are that I must decide myself.

For the moment I can't see what's more I could do (except having another OS but that is an option I must exclude).

[Rick Danger]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Is there anything that's actually good with Windows 10?

Back on July 13th (Wow! Ancient history!), Mr. A435843 posted a review of Windows 10, based on the publication of the Windows 10 Primer. Here is a link to his review: http://vintage-erotica-forum.com/sho...5&postcount=35

Unfortunately the link A435843 provided to download the primer is no longer active. Perhaps he may consider reposting it?

In response, I posted this on July 16th:

First and foremost if you are totally in bed with Microsoft products (Windows Phone, Xbox, cloud services) then you are probably doing cartwheels right about now. But for those of us with Android or iOS phones, Playstations, Google Apps, iPad etc. not so much.

Secondly, it occurs to me that in order to provide a homogeneous operating system environment Microsoft likely applied a "least common denominator" principle; i.e.,the Windows 10 features and performance on PCs will be sacrificed to insure that it runs smoothly on other platforms like Windows Phone and Xbox, instead of the other way round. This is borne out by a435843 comments concerning Spartan, the removal of the Control Panel and Devices features, and the rollout of Universal Apps.

I wrote these comments before the issues with updates, privacy intrusions, and lack of functionality in core features and apps were published.

Some of the big ticket items that Microsoft keeps pushing as reasons for upgrading actually are not fully functional as of yet. The Edge browser does not yet support add-ins as do other popular browsers. Cortana is "not ready for prime-time". The Windows Store was recently updated, but the Universal Apps have been panned as lacking functionality. The improved security features such as biometric logins are also not yet available. As Mr. Ernesto75 says, Windows 10 is not mature. And any claim that Windows 10 is "the most secure Windows ever" is refuted by the inclusion of Internet Explorer, perhaps the biggest security vulnerability in the Microsoft ecosystem.

So, if you are a user of Windows Phone or Xbox then Windows 10 will provide you with more integration. If you've relied on Internet Explorer and have never used an alternative browser (Firefox, Chrome, Pale Moon, etc.) then the Edge browser is probably worth looking at. If you own a Surface tablet and a Windows desktop or laptop, again the upgrade may be for you.

If you are a Windows XP user, you well know the clock is ticking. The product went off support last year. If you've taken your XP machine off the Internet you are probably safe. If you are running Vista, you still have two years of support remaining. Keep in mind the "free" Windows 10 upgrade did not extend to XP or Vista machines anyway. And if your hardware, peripherals, and applications are that old chances are the Windows 10 upgrade wouldn't work too well for you anyway.

If you are a Windows 8 or 8.1 user, or are looking to use a touchscreen interface you actually may be better off with Windows 10. To me the "Metro" interface on Windows 8 was poorly designed and executed. The "live tiles" never worked for me, and I actually never use them. I actually preferred the sidebar gadgets from Windows Vista to Windows 8 "live tiles". Likewise, I have found no value in the Windows Store.

If you are a Windows 7 user, I am hard pressed to recommend Windows 10. And I would not be panicked by Microsoft into upgrading. Redmond is obviously trying to push Windows 7 users into the Win 10 camp. But recall that Win 7 is still supported. While full or "Mainstream" support for Windows 7 Service Pack 1 ended this January, you have Extended Support until January 17, 2020. This includes security updates, availability of paid support, and the availability of product-specific information via Microsoft's online Knowledge Base or Support site at Microsoft Help and Support. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/lifepolicy

As I have stated ad nauseam, Windows 10 is a "NO SALE" for me. I do not like the forced updates. I am equally unhappy with the increased telemetry, data harvesting, and intrusive advertising carried by the product. The core features do not hold my interest. I have no plans on buying a Windows Phone, Xbox, or Surface tablet, so integrating my PC with these products is not a priority for me. The Edge browser for me is SEVEN YEARS too late: that ship has sailed long ago. Cortana might be a cute toy to play with, but I can't support that as the sole reason I'd upgrade. The apps like Groove Music are primitive and actually represent a step backwards compared to what I currently use. The inclusion of Internet Explorer, and the number of security related updates for Windows 10 that have come out since July 29th show me that upgrading will NOT give me any enhanced security in the near term. I still have over two years of full support and eight years of extended support available to me. I'm in no hurry.

So, judge for yourself. If Windows 10 works for you, fine. If it doesn't, that's fine too! But don't be sweet-talked or buffaloed into upgrading. Consider your requirements with such pure logic that Mr. Spock would turn green with envy (oh, yeah. He was already green!). Keep an eye out to see if the promised features of Windows 10 actually materialize, and if the oft-criticized features (updating, privacy intrusions, etc.) are remedied.

Good luck!

P.S.

If you've been reading ALL of this thread (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) you will see that prior to the July 29th rollout Microsoft promised it's corporate customers that Windows 10 would not be pushed to devices on corporate domains. Twice since July 29th there have been widespread reports of such devices being upgraded. There have been complaints from users with limited bandwidth Internet services that the seemingly endless Windows updates are costing them money in overage charges. And of course the infamy of the unannounced and "hidden" 6 Gb Windows 10 pre-install.

Each time Redmond has been quick to issue mea culpas and rush to mend fences. But it's clear that Microsoft is so out of control that you should not rely on their assurances concerning their newly announced changes to how Windows 10 will be deployed. If you do chances are you will awake one morning soon to find you are now the proud owner of a Windows 10 machine (assuming the update didn't "brick" your machine). If this is what you want, so be it.

If not, if you haven't already turned Automatic Update OFF or have not installed the GWX Control Panel app (as I have) to cleanse your machine(s) of any Windows 10 pre-installation, remove the GWX app, and fix your registry to prevent an OS update then you are playing Microsoft's version of "Russian Roulette". With a fully loaded revolver!

[Rick Danger]

Originally Posted by Ernesto75

But the more I look at the insides of my machines the more I am wondering.

For example Apple is beginning to do the same. They just released a new version of their OS. This is all very well but why do they insist so much to have me upgrading? Everyday I am prompted on my iPhone for an upgrade. They are really insisting and I become weary.

Similarly I have been nagged by Acrobat.

Caution mon ami! All updates are not the same. In our haste to prevent Microsoft from "helping" us to upgrade to Windows 10, please make sure not to turn a blind eye to legitimate, security related updates, whether they be from Apple, Adobe, or yes, even Microsoft.

As I have stated on prior occasions, the good thing about security related updates is that they can usually be linked to publicly released bulletins, typically from reliable government or industry sources. In the United States the US Computer Emergency Readiness Team (US CERT), which is part of the Department of Homeland Security's National Cybersecurity and Communications Integration Center (NCCIC) serves as a clearinghouse for such information. Under the European Union the CERT-EU has this function.

I pulled these from the US CERT website:

Apple Releases Multiple Security Updates
Published October 21, 2015

Apple has released several security updates to address critical vulnerabilities in multiple Apple products. Exploitation of some of these vulnerabilities may allow a remote attacker to take control of an affected system.

Available updates include:

OS X Server 5.0.15 for OS X Yosemite v10.10.5 and OS X El Capitan v10.11.1 or later
Xcode 7.1 for OS X Yosemite v10.10.5 or later
Mac EFI Security Update 2015-002 for OS X Mavericks v10.9.5
iTunes 12.3.1 for Windows 7 and later
OS X El Capitan 10.11.1 and Security Update 2015-007 for OS X Mavericks v10.9.5, OS X Yosemite v10.10.5, and OS X El Capitan v10.11
Safari 9.0.1 for OS X Mavericks v10.9.5, OS X Yosemite v10.10.5, and OS X El Capitan v10.11
watchOS 2.0.1 for Apple Watch Sport, Apple Watch, Apple Watch Edition, and Apple Watch Hermes
iOS 9.1 for iPhones 4s and later, iPod Touch 5th generation and later, and iPad 2 and later

Adobe Releases Security Updates for Flash Player
Published October 16, 2015

Adobe has released security updates to address multiple vulnerabilities in Flash Player. Exploitation of some of these vulnerabilities may allow a remote attacker to take control of an affected system.

Users and administrators are encouraged to review Adobe Security Bulletin APSB15-27 and apply the necessary updates.

Adobe Releases Security Update for Shockwave Player
Published October 27, 2015

Adobe has released a security update for Adobe Shockwave Player. Exploitation of this vulnerability could potentially allow an attacker to take control of the affected system.

Users and administrators are encouraged to review Adobe Security Bulletin APSB15-26 and apply the necessary updates.


Aside from the US and EU CERT organizations, ZDnet's Zero Day blog is also a valuable source of information. There are certainly more.

I know at times all of this can be quite overwhelming. But knowledge gives us the power we need to make informed decisions. For example, I recently declined the offer by my credit union to use their mobile banking app. Sure, banks and thrifts are using these apps to cut costs (i.e., STAFF) and in their view provide "better" service. But aside from the very real possibility of losing my smartphone, the inherit vulnerabilities of smartphone platforms as a whole mean that I can't feel comfortable using a banking app in such an insecure environment. And the spying and data collection that cellphone carriers and app providers are engaged in would make Apple or Microsoft blush!

I am a fan of the horror stories of H.P. Lovecraft. Reading details of security vulnerabilities and hacks actually scares me more!

US CERT: https://www.us-cert.gov/about-us
CERT-EU: https://cert.europa.eu/cert/plainedi...ert_about.html
ZDnet Zero Day blog: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/

[Rick Danger]

As usual we are simpatico. It's almost like I can start a sentence and you finish it.

Consider this:

Originally Posted by A435843

Second, they're trying to increasingly pass off testing to home and enterprise (surprisingly) users, via the forced-updates scheme.

Your statement PERFECTLY fits the facts at hand. First, we've seen an obvious lack of quality control in recent Windows Updates; e.g., a Surface 3 update that crashed these devices; patches that don't seem to work, only to be reapplied, and the "accidental" release of the Windows 10 pre-install. Secondly, the increased telemetry being pushed down via Optional updates for which there was no published information. In other words "We cannot adequately test updates and releases in house [probably due to staff cuts], so we will release these updates to our customers and gather information via our enhanced telemetry".

I have labored in this thread to clearly present the facts and to separate such facts from my opinions. For me a computer is a tool, not a religion. Redmond's track record with recent OS releases (Vista, Window 8, and now Windows 10) has been less than stellar, to put it mildly. As I said, based on recent and well reported events if you trust Microsoft to "do the right thing", you are playing into their hands. And if you don't take measures to prevent an unwanted Windows 10 update from being installed on your system(s), you really have no one to blame but yourself!

Aside from the diminished confidence and trust in Microsoft, all this "Who Struck John" concerning Windows 10 distracts us from far more serious issues concerning security and privacy that have much more dire consequences for computer users at all levels. I am no security expert, nor am I in law enforcement. But it doesn't take an FBI agent to figure out that walking down a dark alley in a major city anywhere in the world at 3AM in the morning is probably NOT an activity conducive to one's health and well being. Likewise, a quick read of just the topic list on the ZDnet Zero Day blog would convince any bald face novice that there are some very real and nasty threats out there.

[spicoli]

I have followed this thread for some time. Thanks to all who contribute.

I own personal take on W-10 is why upgrade my work and home PC's, which are all running just fine on W-7, to an unproven OS until I am forced to. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

The company that I am associated with forced us to upgrade from XP due to lack of support from MS for XP. Our PC's were 5 or so years old so they were basically obsolete anyway. Knowing W-8 had a bad rep, we choose to buy new PC's with W-7 (and solid state hard drives).

At this point I have no intention of moving to W-10 for the reasons mentioned above. In five years the landscape will have changed and MS will have a stable OS that we will use for our new PC's (I hope).

For those who are buying new now W-10 comes with the PC. If I have to buy new in the next five years, I will use the most stable OS - which may be w-10. I would advise those buying new to use the same thought process.