Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[Old Jud]

Originally Posted by bubbs999

If this thread shows one thing, it's that there will never be a concensus of opinion on this issue ... or any other for that matter.


All this talk that "The tories are finished" "There'll never be another Tory government after brexit" is utter hogwash.


People will not put Corbin in no.10, no matter how much they want the Tories out. Corbin is today's Neil Kinnock - nobody wanted him at the helm and the same applies today.


The majority of people in this country are consumed with self interest. The rich elite are going to vote Tory - the lowest earners paying exhorbatent rents are going to vote Labour.

People want and need 'affordable housing' - the Tory gov't are so far removed from real life that to them 'affordable' housing is £450k in London and £250k elsewhere. 'Affordable' housing is a £70k timber famed eco shed that puts a roof over a families head. Housing is meant to be 'shelter from the elements' NOT an investment portfolio and pension fund.

The Torys will never mass build 'real' social housing, as it will bring rents down and house prices. The middle and upper class with their buy to rent homes won't stand for it. There are too many people making too much money out of property and housing.
Those hard working families at the lower end of the money tree, want social reform and more equality - but are too scared that it will mean they have negative equity mortgages and end up in debt - or worse homeless.
I have never seen such innequality as there is now. The gulf between the richest and poorest in the UK is a chasm. We should not see homelessness or foodbanks in 21st century Britain. We could learn a thing from the French here - we are asleep while our country burns - they are on their 10th weekend of mass protests - THAT is how you effect change in policy. Gov'ts don't listen to the people unless they are forced to. Aren't we all tired of the endless gov't and media lies


50% vote Tory - 50% vote labour +/- 10% historically. Nothing has changed. Nothing will change.

I pretty much agree with what you say bubbs, apart from 'Corbin is today's Neil Kinnock - nobody wanted him at the helm and the same applies today'

Kinnock was a moderate shackled by the far-left 'Militant' group, remember Derek Hatton and his cronies? The public was still suffering the hangover from the previous Labour administration. Kinnock lacked the resolve to get rid of them effectively and the right-leaning media crucified him. But he didn't do too (both him and his missus) bad within the EU eh?

Corbyn is a different kettle of fish, a far-left scheming parasite who is willing to associate with terrorist groups but is reluctant to speak with the prime minister.

We are stuck with an unfit for purpose Tory government, but the alternative is far more worrying.

[bjcb0]

Originally Posted by judy84

Let me get this right. Dominic Grieve, a Tory MP, aided by that malignant dwarf Bercow, is trying for a coup that will allow him to take control of an elected government using a minority of MPs?

I understand that feelings are high, but I would see this instead as an attempt by Parliament to reach a new consensus given a failed PM and the relatively new addition of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act of 2011. Niall Ferguson is very lucid on FTA in the Sunday Times today: he makes the point that Parliamentary precedent for almost two centuries should have seen May resign as PM following her defeat last Tuesday, followed by a new Conservative PM and, hopefully, a consensus that the saner Labour MPs would support (as they supported Heath's government when we joined the then EEC back in 1973). Instead, we have May refusing to really do anything, living up to her Maybot epithet.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by bjcb0

I understand that feelings are high, but I would see this instead as an attempt by Parliament to reach a new consensus given a failed PM and the relatively new addition of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act of 2011.

Its a curious thing to me: you have a Parliament elected shortly after the Brexit referendum, one which surely "represents the voters as they voted for Brexit".

And this Parliament rejected the Brexit deal by an overwhelming vote.

So go back to the people, that's gotta be the right choice. Britain is fighting a "Battle of New Orleans", the armies not aware that their instruction have been rendered obsolete by time.

[bjcb0]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

And this Parliament rejected the Brexit deal by an overwhelming vote.

Parliament has rejected one Brexit deal, not all. I think that an alternative compromise including the Customs Union might be acceptable across Parliament. There is very little time left, so this would imply either retracting Article 50 (which we can do unilaterally) or asking the EU 27 for a delay. I'm a remainer, but accept that there probably still is a majority for leaving the EU, unfortunately.

So go back to the people, that's gotta be the right choice.

I like the idea of a second referendum too, but many do not. In any case, a second referendum would have to ask the electorate to specify the type of Brexit. If we do that, then delaying/retracting Article 50 is still necessary. In fact, whatever we do, delaying/retracting Article 50 seems to be unavoidable.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

So for a country which didn't have obvious natural advantages to end up so prosperous-- they did a lot of things right. They don't have Norway's oil, so they're not quite as rich-- but the per capita GDP is $45K per person; that's impressive.

Well, it has a lot of trees, and makes a lot of paper. Aside from that, it has its human resources, which it educates and trains for free. There are no private, fee-charging schools or universities that I know of, and it consistently outperforms all other European states in education, say the OECD

It also has among the lowest GINI coefficients in the world, meaning that inequality is less than almost everywhere

I see you mention Russia, but relations have never been a problem since WW2. Even Stalin respected them

[haroldeye]

The very nice Finnish lady who works in our local supermarket says she has come to England because there are too many bloody Russians moving into Finland.

Just saying.

In all fairness though. I'm sure if she were to meet a Russian like Palo she would adore him.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

The very nice Finnish lady who works in our local supermarket says she has come to England because there are too many bloody Russians moving into Finland

If that's the case, she made a bad call. There are more than 2x as many Russians in UK than Finland

[haroldeye]

Perhaps but they are all busy admiring our Cathedrals to worry shop girls.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Perhaps but they are all busy admiring our Cathedrals to worry shop girls.

Not unthinkable. There are no stone cathedrals in Russia from a thousand years ago

Back OT

An interesting comment from a UK journalist: "I turned to a senior and clever Tory who is a close shipmate of the prime minister. How will it end? Came his sagacious reply: "I haven't got a fucking clue."

[charliels531]

Originally Posted by bubbs999

People want and need 'affordable housing' - the Tory gov't are so far removed from real life that to them 'affordable' housing is £450k in London and £250k elsewhere. 'Affordable' housing is a £70k timber famed eco shed that puts a roof over a families head. Housing is meant to be 'shelter from the elements' NOT an investment portfolio and pension fund.

You have made an interesting point, Bubbs. Across the pond we had the Republican "tax cut" a year ago, based on the premise that "middle class income" was $450,000 per year.

In fact, median income is a bit less than a tenth that. $450K is in the upper 1% range.