Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[crinolynne]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I would suggest that you are in denial. Every time a genuinely Communist economic model is applied it leads to disaster and famine. Every time, without exception. There have been many prosperous and successful capitalist societies but there has never been a Communist society which succeeded. Always, always, always, the collectivisation model leads to economic failure; and the people who make the decisions are never the people who end up dead from starvation, because Communism is not an equal or fair or just society.

So how many failures are needed before you will entertain the possibility that the system itself is what is wrong?

Oh nonsense! I was simply pointing out the provenance that the concept of communism was generated from the excesses of capitalism. Capitalism cannot escape a certain culpability. But since you insist, the failures of the communist model might be the more properly attributed to the failures of autocrats in general; and capitalist autocrats have been equally unsuccessful.
I would also suggest that application of the communist model to health care has been demonstrably much more successful that the capitalist version.

[crinolynne]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

So did Ronnie design and build the Chernobyl reactors to such a low safety standard, with no containment dome?

Did Ronnie fuck about with the reactor with such an unsafe experiment, just to see what would happen if you ran it wrong?

Q: Let's just test what will happen if we run this reactor in an improper and unsafe way?

A: Oh fuck, it exploded. Now we are going to distribute radioactive carbon isotopes over the whole of western Europe. But we won't tell anyone unless their own nuclear power stations start to pick up unsafe and abnormal readings and they panic and wonder if their own reactors are melting down.

Yeah sure; it's all Ronnie's fault.

Jesus on a bike.

And the 3 Mile Island accident was amazingly similar.

And let us all pause to consider the heroism of the control room staff at Chernobyl. For all the socio-politico rhetoric that's argue over. it is the humanity of such people that we all share.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by crinolynne

And the 3 Mile Island accident was amazingly similar.

And let us all pause to consider the heroism of the control room staff at Chernobyl. For all the socio-politico rhetoric that's argue over. it is the humanity of such people that we all share.

They have a containment dome at Three Mile Island, built when the reactor was built. In the evil capitalist America, safety standards were higher, and that is why there wasn't a huge environmental catastrophe there, as happened with Chernobyl. Sadly, at Fukushima the explosion was so powerful that it blew the lid off the domes; this might have happened at Chernobyl as well, who knows?

When I think of the heroes at Chernobyl I think of the ordinary firemen, not even employees of the plant, who went in and put the fire out. All of them died; they will have known at the time that they would die, but they did it anyway, to save everyone else. Every single one of those men was a genuine Hero of the Soviet Union - did they get the Hero medal for their coffins? That is the least they deserved in recognition for such valiant self-sacrifice.

May the winter snow fall softly on their honoured graves.

[Enrico32]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Expropriating all property belonging to everyone requires a government with remarkable -- indeed totalitarian-- coercive powers.

"Coercive" is subjective. Modern sense of private property depends only on social understanding, or "dogma".
Take inheritance, for example. Many laws allow to pass it down to anyone. Yet most people still choose their blood relatives. So they make a decision without the law compelling them. So the social dogma compels them.
If such dogma exists, it's theoretically possible to establish a counter-dogma by which all is inherited by all once and for all.

Originally Posted by deepsepia

And you say "But please sir, we've agreed to end war"
And your neighbor points out, "But I have a tank, and I haven't agreed".

Force is not the answer.
Who has the strongest army now?
Yet there are polities with just a few soldiers, or those with nothing (Panama, Iceland) - and these defenceless countries enjoy full sovereignty and respect.

Mere agreement, or social dogma, is enough to prevent war.
__________________________________________________ _______


Yet I do not know how such agreements are made, and he who knows will know how to build communism too.

[Estreeter]

You know when you stay in a hotel and there it is, The Bible in your bedside cabinet drawer

Originally Posted by Wendigo

I wouldn't want to live in any shithole of a country that abolishes jokes and satires as repressing satire is the sure sign of an oncoming tyranny.

Well, If I ran a Communist country I wouldn't ban all Jokes and Humour, I'd make it mandatory that ever house has a Copy of Das Kapital to amuse the kids

Originally Posted by Wendigo

If you spent less time on your boring Don Quixote style let's start a new communist golden age crusade and more time in the real world you would know I take the Mick out of myself regularly.
Communists don't like humour as it requires allowing people to think for themselves

I was a Commie this morning was equal to everyone around me, granted I was taking a dump at the time

Oh, and I hate Communism so much, If I were the only person on the planet apart from one other, I'd still not want to be equal to everyone else

Sorry, suffering a hangover spent quite a few hours gambling last night and drinking beer and smoking

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Sorry, suffering a hangover spent quite a few hours gambling last night and drinking beer and smoking

You didn't find your way on this life. Isn't it ?

God (if you exist) Take care of your lost sheep Estreeter. Lost in the temple of Capitalist Consumerism.
Show him the enlighted ways of mindfullness and sociability.

.....
Haaalllleeelllluuuuiiiiaaah.

Amen.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Enrico32

"Coercive" is subjective. Modern sense of private property depends only on social understanding, or "dogma".
Take inheritance, for example. Many laws allow to pass it down to anyone. Yet most people still choose their blood relatives. So they make a decision without the law compelling them. So the social dogma compels them.
If such dogma exists, it's theoretically possible to establish a counter-dogma by which all is inherited by all once and for all.



Force is not the answer.
Who has the strongest army now?
Yet there are polities with just a few soldiers, or those with nothing (Panama, Iceland) - and these defenceless countries enjoy full sovereignty and respect.

Mere agreement, or social dogma, is enough to prevent war.
__________________________________________________ _______


Yet I do not know how such agreements are made, and he who knows will know how to build communism too.

This is really egregious stuff, Enrico. Communism is not a theoretical thought experiment; it has been implemented on this plane of existence. You cannot take away / expropriate someone's land without paying the fair market price, except by using brute force. That is how it works. You see, under Communism, force is the answer. To say or imply anything else is dishonest ~ Stalin wouldn't do that.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

You didn't find your way on this life.

Point out which of the 10 Commandments I broke

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Isn't it ?

Let me tell you something about myself and last night.

Some weeks back I was suspended from work for 1 roster without pay
My employer got sick of my smart ass attitude Losing 1 roster pay for me is nothing really, in fact I treated it as an extra week off

That all stems from 1 thing, I am entitled as per my work contract $1000 of shares in the company each financial year, next week marks my 10th year there, so far I have refused them every year, that's $9000 I've refused so far to take, totally free and mine for good, who knows what they might be worth one day plus dividends I'm missing out on.

Reason is this,
I will not own shares in any company, no matter how profitable that company is if I would not buy or use the companies products or services, meaning I think they are sub standard to my expectations of quality.

I've repeated that to managers and as expected don't like hearing it.

A few weeks back I got hammered in a meeting for Supervisors and all State managers as my shifts production numbers are now consistently the among the lowest. I pointed out that my shifts quality output is always the highest no matter what the production tally is and also pointed out since my production numbers fell also coincided with the new cheaper lower quality clay was being used to make bricks and then went on about how we take more care to get the customer a 1st product rather than sub standard, by taking more care and running slower and taking more time to do quality checks ensures nothing is sub standard but can only just pass as a product that can be sold, or worse thrown out.

I then blurted out my reason again on why I don't take the shares, only this time senior management was there, I forgot they hated that and hence my 1 week extra holiday

Last week, 2 of my friends happened to mention they had this Monday, today, off and said they were coming down to the casino for a night out and said if I wasn't working to come along, I couldn't as I was supposed to be at work last few nights.

So I came up with a cunning plan, I approached my manager almost knowing the outcome of this. They have a thing for statistics and money They don't like having people away with lost time through their fault.

I told my manager that maybe I'm a little stressed out and is more than likely the casue of my attitude and remarks, he knows the deal with me having multiple roles, of the 6 people who have my same job, I'm the only one who has lasted more than 2 years, I've lasted 10. So, I told him I wanted stress leave, that they hate so have to action it, I knew what was coming next ... they hide it and just put it down as paid personal leave

So, I had last roster off, paid and was my way of getting that 1 week I lost back without being there and had a night out with 2 of my closest and oldest friends, also had a great time and even won enough that I had to take a cheque rather than cash, $7000. That was banked today, half we'll keep, the other half waste on whatever.

That's how I operate, I have no love for shit companies and will screw them my own way.

I guess I did break the "Thou Shall Not Lie" commandment in that instance

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

This is really egregious stuff, Enrico. Communism is not a theoretical thought experiment; it has been implemented on this plane of existence. You cannot take away / expropriate someone's land without paying the fair market price, except by using brute force. That is how it works. You see, under Communism, force is the answer. To say or imply anything else is dishonest ~ Stalin wouldn't do that.

You was wrongly informed...
Just read the 1936 Constitution.

ARTICLE 10. The right of citizens to personal ownership of their incomes from work and of their savings, of their dwelling houses and subsidiary household economy, their household furniture and utensils and articles of personal use and convenience, as well as the right of inheritance of personal property of citizens, is protected by law.

I remember that you not often were on this topic in the past.
Did you read the Chapter 1 of the 1936 Soviet Constitution postcount=313 ?

Even American members found it more fair than the American one.
Just take the time to read it.

As I wrote as that time, I read it after listening a French Professor in economy explaining how horrified he was when his students asked him questions about the French and European Constitutions.
He began to read several Constitutions and observed that in many cases in Western democracies, the right to modify the Constitution by the people had been "theft" by the elites.

Western democraties Constitutions allow... the right to exploit the man by the man.
As Brexiter fighting against EU dictatorship... are you not disguted in general by this strange tolerance about an elementary social and ethical problem ?

[crinolynne]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

This is really egregious stuff, Enrico. Communism is not a theoretical thought experiment; it has been implemented on this plane of existence. You cannot take away / expropriate someone's land without paying the fair market price, except by using brute force. That is how it works. You see, under Communism, force is the answer. To say or imply anything else is dishonest ~ Stalin wouldn't do that.

And exactly what would you call the process known as the Highland Clearances?