Things Noticeable this week - Page 3362

**Roubignol** · May 21st, 2018, 08:43 AM

Thank you scoundrel, I learn a new word today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

This is called "irredentism". The territory of another country is not yours to take whether you have issued passports to people living there or not.

Countries must disappear. They are jails.
Modern societies will destroy these borders and live in small communities.
There are no options.
If Global Warming happens as it is potentially observed by the IPCC, you will watch how will explose those artificial borders. Peacefully or not, they will explose. It would be better that they disappear intelligently and peacefully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seany65

Just remember that the Yanks are our dangerously mental population who were expelled for safety's sake.

The rest of us are either 'normal' or merely 'endearingly eccentric'.

I read that Australians even were worse ones. Is it correct?

**Puhbear69** · May 21st, 2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

If I conceive myself to be at war with a foreign power, what I won't do is wail, moan and complain when acts of war take place. In the case you describe, the decision to go to war will have been my own country's and mine, no crying foul and no crying for mummy. If I as a neutral observer am expected to feel indignant about Israel firing on attacking mobs violating her border with Gaza, should I not be equally indignant about the incitement of Hamas, about the firing of explosive rockets at Israeli civilians and so on?

Truthfully, I am bored with it and totally indifferent. These two groups deserve each other and are each on earth to be a just punishment for the other. I no longer care about anything they do. But I do note the silly hypocrisy of complaining because people who attack Israel come unstuck.

It was the same to me like the clashes of the of the IRA (mainly Irish nationalistic-Catholics) and UVF (mainly British nationalistic-Protestants ) in Northern Ireland. They deserved each other too in my former opinion. "Unfortunately (:LOL: )" both accepted a mainly (deep black Irony) lot of a so called "collateral damage".
As you like you can find out what the German difference is between the words "Iren" and "Irren [Subst., Plural]" as a winged word for both of those groups and the circumstances in Northern Ireland. What a difference of only one letter.

It took me long time to figure out, that it was -mainly- an distinctive factor and not the real reason ...

So it's -not all- very similar with Palestinians and Israelis. Before 1947 both had no/less conflicts living together. They were living in a good and mixed neighbourhood.

Sharing experiences: Germany had a bad history too between 1945 to 1989, with shootings (KILLINGS !) at people at the borders. I mean of course the Iron Curtain (called "antifascistic barricade" in the East). East German soldiers and border patrols were forced (and brainwashed !) to shoot -with a deadly backdrop- on the own countrymen, as they want to flee the country. And not to talk of the death strip with mines (it took more than 6 Months to remove them all).

In 2015 our AfD (Remark: a populistic- Ultra Right Wing Party), special some of their "famous & clever"

leaders, had the same "glorious" idea to shoot on refugees at our borders, if they want to break our borders. :Head-shaking:

BTW: This idiot of "The Toupee" follows the same idea at the US-Mexican boarder since 2015. :Head-shaking once more:

So I must ask what's ethically more important for humans:
To protect a -more or less- virtual, abstract boarder line with (deadly, killing !) forces or to save a human life, especially it is a matter of kids and babies as "collateral damage", called "mobs (!)" in your first paragraph .

**Wendigo** · May 21st, 2018, 08:50 AM

We interrupt the gloom and doom of the impending apocalypse (which I firmly believe will NOT be noticeable this week) with some current news

Grenfell Tower: Bereaved to speak at inquiry into blaze
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44190742

The public's eyes are on this inquiry we know that safety measures were skimmed over by the owners, the local council, to save money; but will it end in an inconclusive whitewash?

**CARLTON BROWN** · May 21st, 2018, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

If you are going to cite Peter Arnett and Operation Tailwind, you should include all the allegations and retractions made.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tailwind

With respect, it's not my job to start laying out long detailed accounts of something like this, taking onboard the views of the establishment. I am simply making the point that sometimes results are considered more important than the methods used to achieve them. For example, you might easily dismiss rendition and torture, that is something much of the general public prefer to have glossed over. Did it happen? Seems so doesn't it?

Cover ups are widespread in most nations when the wrong information gets out. This is nothing new.

Tailwind was actually in Laos during 1970, but I'll just mention that I've heard all manner of things from my cousin who served in Vietnam that you would of course not believe. Vast areas awash with Agent Orange, the air thick with it, the stuff running down drain channels. What was believed to be Sarin dropped into tunnels used by the VC, terrible things done to the local civilians, troops often out of control, American rape gangs, stories that would have seemed outrageous in Apocalypse Now. When my cousin returned, he was close to barking mad and has never recovered.

You must believe whatever you want, but the US, the Europeans, the Russians, Chinese will often do whatever it takes to get a result and the only thing that matters is not being caught. It's called "plausible deniability!"

**scoundrel** · May 21st, 2018, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CARLTON BROWN

You must believe whatever you want, but the US, the Europeans, the Russians, Chinese will often do whatever it takes to get a result and the only thing that matters is not being caught. It's called "plausible deniability!"

If we are cross-referring between alleged American naughtiness in Vietnam and the polonium 210 and Novichok poisonings in the UK, then it doesn't seem much as though Russia was trying for plausible deniability. It was an extremely open crime in both cases; it was a From Russia With Love message to Britain. The Russian side probably didn't anticipate the vehemence and wide range of the diplomatic sanctions she would collect for the Novichok attack. Perhaps there is a lack of understanding in Russia concerning the general western taboo on chemical and neurological weapons. I am quite sure Mr Putin wasn't banking on the degree of support the British received. It was a very bad move, but I am sure that the Russian side calculated that Britain is militarily weak, diplomatically estranged due to Brexit and could safely be insulted in this way; and what fun it would be to deliver such a public insult and laugh at Britain being unable to do anything about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4SZu3U5B4

**scoundrel** · May 21st, 2018, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

So I must ask what's ethically more important for humans:
To protect a -more or less- virtual, abstract boarder line with (deadly, killing !) forces or to save a human life, especially it is a matter of kids and babies as "collateral damage", called "mobs (!)" in your first paragraph .

It is fashionable these days to talk about how borders are a bad thing. But in reality borders are an excellent thing and it is totally justifiable to use force to defend your borders whenever they are attacked.

**CARLTON BROWN** · May 21st, 2018, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

If we are cross-referring between alleged American naughtiness in Vietnam and the polonium 210 and Novichok poisonings in the UK, then it doesn't seem much as though Russia was trying for plausible deniability. It was an extremely open crime in both cases; it was a From Russia With Love message to Britain. The Russian side probably didn't anticipate the vehemence and wide range of the diplomatic sanctions she would collect for the Novichok attack. Perhaps there is a lack of understanding in Russia concerning the general western taboo on chemical and neurological weapons. I am quite sure Mr Putin wasn't banking on the degree of support the British received. It was a very bad move, but I am sure that the Russian side calculated that Britain is militarily weak, diplomatically estranged due to Brexit and could safely be insulted in this way; and what fun it would be to deliver such a public insult and laugh at Britain being unable to do anything about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4SZu3U5B4

Couldn't agree more. It's something of an enigma. I don't think anyone else can be blamed for the polonium poisoning. Maybe they simply didn't expect to be caught out? With the Salisbury business, nothing is clear cut. Were they sending a message to the West? Did they simply not care, or is there a lot more to all this that anyone outside HMG (and perhaps the FSB) knows about?

**Puhbear69** · May 22nd, 2018, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoundrel

It is fashionable these days to talk about how borders are a bad thing. But in reality borders are an excellent thing and it is totally justifiable to use force to defend your borders whenever they are attacked.

There are plenty of other possibilities to protect a boarder without deadly force, especially at kids and babies. There's actually not a war situation with some kind of "collateral damage", that's called homicide.

And it is at least.

At your definition of borders it is an excellent and pleasant way to shoot (and kill) other persons with a so called governmental permission. I call it homicide. And one can at least plead on "you had orders", if the conscience rides oneself to much (if that will help). (In case of the East German border patrols (and their leading staff) - it didn't help them).

That's anything else than "fashionable" (what a term in this case !), to kill persons should be the ultimate ratio, if someone uses deadly force to oneself for example.
No, and that's not justified too, as you may think.

**old alal** · May 22nd, 2018, 07:40 AM

Today is one year on from the Manchester Arena terrorist attack. My home City will remember, I will remember, and I hope all of you will join us.

R.I.P. 22 Innocent Souls.

**haroldeye** · May 22nd, 2018, 09:36 AM

That's anything else than "fashionable" (what a term in this case !), to kill persons should be the ultimate ratio, if someone uses deadly force to oneself for example.
No, and that's not justified too, as you may think.

I think you may change you're mind if you are ever confronted with the choice.

May 21st, 2018, 08:50 AM	#33613
Wendigo Former Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Blighty Posts: 113,783 Thanks: 259,900 Thanked 1,139,332 Times in 113,903 Posts	We interrupt the gloom and doom of the impending apocalypse (which I firmly believe will NOT be noticeable this week) with some current news Grenfell Tower: Bereaved to speak at inquiry into blaze http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44190742 The public's eyes are on this inquiry we know that safety measures were skimmed over by the owners, the local council, to save money; but will it end in an inconclusive whitewash? __________________ RIP Doctor Who To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 23 November 1963 to 25 December 2017, sacrificed on the altar of identity politics. The show is dead to me, but my DVD's live on If you can re-up dead links please consider adding this to your signature. It helps when looking at reports of dead posts. Please PM me re any dead images although it is likely if it is outside Celebs I may no longer have the content

May 22nd, 2018, 07:40 AM	#33619
old alal Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: UK Posts: 3,197 Thanks: 22,904 Thanked 35,082 Times in 3,165 Posts	Today is one year on from the Manchester Arena terrorist attack. My home City will remember, I will remember, and I hope all of you will join us. R.I.P. 22 Innocent Souls. __________________ Old alal's First Rule Of Breasts To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. When you've seen one pair of breasts.........you want to see every pair of breasts!

May 22nd, 2018, 09:36 AM	#33620
haroldeye Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Halfwitistan Posts: 5,716 Thanks: 113,527 Thanked 59,967 Times in 5,708 Posts	That's anything else than "fashionable" (what a term in this case !), to kill persons should be the ultimate ratio, if someone uses deadly force to oneself for example. No, and that's not justified too, as you may think. I think you may change you're mind if you are ever confronted with the choice.