Things Noticeable this week

[HugoHackenbush]

Originally Posted by wildtig2013

I don't understand folks who refuse to evacuate whenever there is advance warning that a life threatening natural disaster is headed their way.

Government would not issue a mandatory evacuation if they didn't feel folks were at risk of death and destruction.

I'll tell you why. Because the projected path is just a guess, and is frequently wrong. Last year, with Irma, I evacuated my flat on the east coast of Florida to a relative's house on the west coast, due to it being hailed as a Cat 5 storm. As it turned out, the hurricane went much further west than projected, then turned north. I evacuated myself directly into the actual path of the hurricane, where we took a direct hit. Fortunately, the storm had weakened to the point where it was a mere Cat 2.

Also the mph figures they give you are for the highest sustained winds, which are always at the eye wall. If you don't get hit by the eye, your winds will be substantially less. I was in Florida for Andrew, a horribly destructive storm. But it made landfall a good 50-60 mile south of me. My residence suffered no damage at all.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

This is a massive gaff by the Russians.

Unless its a massive middle finger from Moscow.

"We will find you and we will kill you, and Western "intelligence" is powerless to protect you"

So is it "incompetence" or "sending a message"?

John Le Carré had a line in Smiley's People about Moscow Centre' "punisment weapons" -- the old Baltic general killed in the park.

"Yes, he was shot," Smiley agreed . "In the face. At extremely
close range. With a soft -nosed bullet. And cursorily searched.
Had his wallet taken. That is the police diagnosis. But our diagnosis
would be different, wouldn't it, Lauder?"

"No way," said Strick land, glowering at him through a cloud of
cigarette smoke.
"Well, mine would."
"Then let's hear it, George," said Lacon handsomely.

"The weapon used to kill Vladimir was a standard Moscow
Centre assassination device," Smiley said. "Concealed in a camera,
a brief-case, or whatever. A soft -nosed bullet is fired at point blank
range. To obliterate, to punish, and to discourage others .

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Our Western culture sucks.
we indecently exploit third world people and other species. We destroy the future of the next generation because of egoism.
.

Mind over matter ! I don't mind and they don't matter

[rotobott]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

Can't wait to hear Putin's story about those 2 innocent civilians accused of the nerve agent poisoning.

What is it? 2 middle aged gay guys (with sequentially numbered passports! ) going for a romantic weekend which included not just 1 but 2! day trips to Salisbury and they didn't even bother visiting the Cathedral or Stonehenge?
Nothing worth looking at in London of course.

Just walking around the suburbs in the drizzle? In March?
Staying in probably the grimmest shittiest hotel in East London.
Maybe there are no hotels in Salisbury?
Or maybe this shit London hotel just gave them the horn.

Man that must have been worth saving up for and applying for those expensive visas. Sounds like the perfect weekend!

It all seems very strange, have there been any reports of dead postmen and paperboys

They are understood to have arrived at Gatwick Airport on Russian passports from Moscow on 2 March, and stayed at the City Stay Hotel in Bow Road, east London.

The following day they visited Salisbury for reconnaissance before contaminating Mr Skripal's front door with Novichok on 4 March, police say.

Officers believe a modified perfume bottle was used to spray the door.

The pair flew from Heathrow to Moscow later that same night.

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

The fact that America does not recognise international law does not mean that she is not subject to the rule of international law. The court has been legally established by the United Nations - 120 nations voted for it and 7 against. The USA and Israel are two of the seven against.

Apologies for the delay in responding to this part but its been in the back of my mind since I read it. I'm trying to not provide a fight, I just want to make my view and my understanding of the view of many other Americans clearer.

Scoundrel, what do you think "International Law" is? My understanding is that there is NO single set of "laws" that constitute International Law. It is a bunch of treaties that various groups of nations have signed and ratified, by their own internal procedures and laws, making agreements on how to handle certain things. It has long been recognized that any country that does not sign a treaty IS NOT BOUND BY SAID TREATY. I.E., countries A, B, C, D and E cannot sign a treaty that requires country F to do something that F doesn't want to do. If they want F to do that A B C D and E have to negotiate with F or go to war with F. The existence of the United Nations does not change that. As I understand it the intended purpose of the UN was to facilitate the negotiation of agreements, not to be a planetary government. Individual SOVEREIGN nations do not surrender that sovereignty by sending ambassadors to the UN.

The perception among a significant segment of the American population that large parts of the rest of the world are trying to use the UN to basically tell the US what to do was one of the factors the helped Donald Trump get elected US President.

To try to put this into an analogy that might resonate with some UK members, how would you feel if after the vote to exit from the EU some UN committee had come along and told your government, "Nope, you can't do that. All these other countries said you have to submit to the EU."? I suspect that many of you would not be happy with that. That is how many Americans feel about the ICC demanding that the US surrender some of its citizens under the provisions of a treaty that the US did not ratify or agree to.

Respectfully, DT

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by rotobott

It all seems very strange, have there been any reports of dead postmen and paperboys

It was a Sunday, no postmen and wasn't sprayed till after midday. Poison would likely to have broken down or dispersed with exposure to wind and rain after a day or so. But no reason for anyone else to touch the door handle apart from those entering with the key.

[seany65]

As far as I understand it, the two baddies or evil russkies (believe what you will), either brought a bottle of poison stuff or novichok through customs (we know 'cos we've seen the x-ray pics) or made it while they were here or were given it by someone else, (believe what you will), they did something in a hotel room with it, they sprayed the skripal's door handle with it and then chucked it away in a park or hid it in a box of similar perfume (believe what you will).

Here's where things get confusing or interesting:

the non-ex-spy man who found a box of bottles of perfume (which we now "know" looked similar to the perfume used in the attempted skripal poisoning), stated clearly that:

He had to rip off the cellophane from the box to allow him to open it, he sprayed some on himself but washed it off quickly but his girlfriend didn't and that's why she died.

We're told that in order to get rid of the poisoned bottle the two baddies or evil russkies (etc.) chucked this bottle away in a park or hid it in a box of similar perfume bottles (etc.).

So either the non-ex-spy who's girlfriend died either lied about having to rip the cellophane off the box or lied about finding a box of perfume bottles and the photo we saw of said box on the news was a lie.

Or we're being lied to about how the poison or novichok (etc.) was administered.

Since then, we've been shown screencaps from cctv of two men that we're told arrived at an airport, wandered around for a bit near the skripal's house/flat, then went back to the airport and buggered off home or back to evil russkie-land (believe what you will). I seem to remember that someone on a news bulletin reported that someone said that the two men or evil russkie agents (etc.) were mildly rebuked when they got back to GRU HQ, but we weren't told how anyone would know that. We were also not shown screencaps of the two men at the skripal's door.

My head hurts now and I'm sorry I started this ruddy post, but I'm not sure I believe any of it.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by seany65

the non-ex-spy man who found a box of bottles of perfume (which we now "know" looked similar to the perfume used in the attempted skripal poisoning), stated clearly that:

{snip}

My head hurts now and I'm sorry I started this ruddy post, but I'm not sure I believe any of it.

Your head no doubt hurts rather less than a Novichok poisoning victim. Its a wildly potent organophosphate neurotoxin, and I wouldn't be too confident about what anyone who's been poisoned by this might think they remember . . . seeing as how it blitzes the chemistry responsible for forming memory.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Unless its a massive middle finger from Moscow.

"We will find you and we will kill you, and Western "intelligence" is powerless to protect you"

So is it "incompetence" or "sending a message"?

I reckon the answer is "Both of the above."

As with the polonium 210 murders, the use of Novichok was the message. Russia was flexing her muscles and taunting Britain with Britain's impotence in the face of superior Russian will - a quintessentially fascist message. That was how it was supposed to work.

The murderers should be invisible phantoms, faceless and impossible to identify. We should all be appalled and initimidated by the ability of Moscow to reach out to its enemies and kill them without leaving any trace of how the magic trick was done. Instead, the plots were carried with such utter lack of subtlety or finesse that they are an advertisement for Moscow's incompetence and crude stupidity. The conjuring trick has lost its force because we are all seeing it done - the hand does not deceive the eye. Moscow doesn't care that we all know what they did, but is rather uncomfortable that her target, Great Britain, has laid bare the tracks which were supposed to be concealed.

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by seany65

My head hurts now and I'm sorry I started this ruddy post, but I'm not sure I believe any of it.

I'm no tub-thumping patriot.

But what gets me is the belief that people have that Russians authorities are incapable of cock-ups or guilt, especially there past history of them and being found out - yet still protesting their complete innocence.

What I probably find even more astonishing is preferring to believe the British authorities are even capable of such an expensive harmful elaborate fabrication involving so many organisations and people (many of them immigrants) and without any of them blowing the whistle on it or even anonymously reporting their suspicions. And for what gain?