Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

Sounds good!

I am sure that if intimate relations with some of France's past and present citizens could have been a possible inducement, the Remain vote would have won the referendum quite comfortably. I bet even a significant minority of the UK female and male gay vote would have been tempted.

Xyzde69 is making a serious point though. It is not logical to argue that when voting to leave the European Union the voters were voting to remain as closely in alignment with the rules and regulations of the European Union as possible. This is a construct being imposed by Mrs May and her cabinet and makes no sense either to a Leave or to a Remain perspective. Of course it is a betrayal of the referendum decision by the political class.

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

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Xyzde69 is making a serious point though. It is not logical to argue that when voting to leave the European Union the voters were voting to remain as closely in alignment with the rules and regulations of the European Union as possible. This is a construct being imposed by Mrs May and her cabinet and makes no sense either to a Leave or to a Remain perspective. Of course it is a betrayal of the referendum decision by the political class.

Many of us said this would happen well over a year ago and were accused of being 'remoaners' and 'traitors' for just pointing out the reality of the politics and economics. Her current position is only likely to only to get even 'softer' during negotiations with the EU.

Well maybe I just repeat what we were then told - basically just shut up
(re)moaning and get behind the country and our great British elected leader and Gov't. Anything else is unpatriotic and negative.
Let's have 'no running commentary' and just let her get on with it.

Brexit's coming home.

[Wendigo]

Let's be clear Brexit was a simple choice - see below



52% voted to leave, and yes there would have been many reasons why we as individuals voted but, like it or not, we did vote to leave.

By making the UK keep revisiting their position the EU are turning the screw, they want the UK to be in a subservient position and it is total bollocks to say the EU are being fair as Article 50 has never been invoked (and probably never will again) so there was never an agreed exit strategy. This is all being made up on the hoof by all sides.

If the EU demand what amounts to keeping the status quo for the EU but with less benefits for the UK then HMG should have the balls to leave the table and if it means a hard Brexit then sobeit, if there is a deal any money we give the EU has to be on a reciprocal basis.

If the UK Government, is forced to give in by MP's and waters down Brexit so much that it is meaningless then I for one will feel totally betrayed and will never cast another vote again.

This was the one single vote in the last 40 years I personally felt really strongly about.

[Mal Hombre]

Subservient position ? Not half as subservient as We're going to have to be when We're making all these great free trade deals.These countries will see Us coming and They will know how desperate We are.I'm not looking forward to watching this country grovel to the likes of India and Turkey.

[Wendigo]

As I have said all along I am far more confident in our country than most people, I believe that Britain will be able to thrive outside the EU.

Yes it will be hard, we will have to change many things and look at investing in our infrastructure and industry but if the Government has the will then I firmly believe in a decade or so people will look back and wonder why we even joined the EU.

[scoundrel]

I don't want to pretend to leave the EU; I want to actually leave. I would like to maintain as good a relationship as we possibly can, but this "combined customs territory" is not a relationship, it is being a vassal state like Norway or Switzerland. We should grow a pair and tell the EU that we are a third party and we expect our relationship to be agreed on that basis.

If there is a problem with the Northern Ireland - Republic border, we're leaving anyway and the EU will need to help find a compromise, because we won't be stopped from leaving, although we are willing to work something out on Ireland if they are also willing. But no to any jurisdiction for the ECJ; no to any preferential treatment for EU citizens on immigration; no to being told what to do by others.

I too think we can manage without being in the EU and without licking boots elsewhere. We may have to get off our arses and work for a living perhaps. Why in the hell can't we train British nurses instead of pilfering them from elsewhere as much as we do? Perhaps the wages should be better? Perhaps we should use labour more intelligently and less wastefully because the true market price of it is actually expensive when we aren't undermining pay and conditions for our own working class?

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

As I have said all along I am far more confident in our country than most people, I believe that Britain will be able to thrive outside the EU.

Yes it will be hard, we will have to change many things and look at investing in our infrastructure and industry but if the Government has the will then I firmly believe in a decade or so people will look back and wonder why we even joined the EU.

That's maybe possible, but you will have to change your political system if you want to reach this goal.
It's not with British pro-European free-market politicians that you will reach your dream. Not at all.

I clearly see that with the result of the votation to control immigration in Switzerland.
Swiss politicians try (and have because of huge UE pressures) to betray the result of the votation, as the French ones did with the 2005 referendum results.

Do not forget, your (like ours) politicians, all have followed the same kind of schools, in which they learned that "free market" and total open borders are the only possibilities.

My cousins who are now wealthy business managers learned all these bullshits in London business schools.
They work for multinational or the state and often eat at the same table.
The one working to the multinational tells how to work to the one who works for the state and both at the end agree to get an uncontrolled business without taxes and few social protection.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I don't want to pretend to leave the EU; I want to actually leave. I would like to maintain as good a relationship as we possibly can, but this "combined customs territory" is not a relationship, it is being a vassal state like Norway or Switzerland. We should grow a pair and tell the EU that we are a third party and we expect our relationship to be agreed on that basis.

Norway gets petrol and Switzerland has difficult days since one year.
Since at least one year, each month Swiss enterprises fire hundreds of workers.
Only during the month of June at least 5000 workers were fired.

[vinceprince]

The hilarious thing about this is the only party supporting a 'Hard Brexit'- UKIP now doesn't really exist. The one place that did actually represent their voters fairly by PR the European Parliament is about the only thing we will definitely be leaving.

No doubt Farage will make another comeback at the next election with his bankrupt party and win fuck all seats again under FPTP.

That's the great thing about the UK - FPTP Democracy if you don't like what the Gov't does you can just vote them out next time at the ballot box.
It's your choice - Tory - Soft Brexit
Labour - Softer Brexit
Lib Dems/SNP - Remain.
and then there's the House of Lords - Soft Brexit

Great British Democracy, the best in the world.

[bloke57]

I love the hypocrisy of Boris Johnson - reportedly saying "you can't polish a turd" while accepting May's compromise (or fudge...your choice).

Well Mr Johnson, you and your execrable party laid this turd - I didn't vote for either you or Brexit - So sort our your own bloody mess.