Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[Roubignol]

@G-Type
I voted to enter in the UE. I don't care about "national sovereignty". That's all stupidity.
I'm even for a global world, unique currency and 2 to 4 classes of wages all around the world.
That would be the best way to fight overpopulation and economic immigration.

I totally agree with you. There is nothing more boring than to change the currency, to pay stupid taxes and to present a passport.

But IMO, UE technocrats are too slow to develop the process.
They let UK and Denmark to hold their currency, they respected the old virtual borders between the countries and keep their national governments instead to maybe let more autonomy by cultural regions, they didn't develop a common language (as the esperanto)...
What a waste of time.

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

@G-Type

But IMO, UE technocrats are too slow to develop the process.
They let UK and Denmark to hold their currency, they respected the old virtual borders between the countries and keep their national governments instead to maybe let more autonomy by cultural regions, they didn't develop a common language (as the esperanto)...
What a waste of time.

G-Type was talking about how being in the EU has not eroded national identities of the mainland European states and I totally respect that view as many EU nations have embraced the concept from the start and he has used personal experiences as examples, basing your viewpoint on personal observations is truer than adhering to some warped ideological viewpoint.

The UK experience is slightly different, we were misled as to the future direction of the EEC as it was then.

One small example, traditionally in the UK we used imperial measures and many older people are not comfortable with kilograms, litres etc, our own Government fined people for trading in both measurements, that is surely a service to all customers both metric savvy and not. Now whether the EU told HMG to get heavy or whether it was a UK Big Brother issue is open to debate but it still strikes a chord with many of us as overbearing interference.

It may be a UK thing but we see a slow chiselling away of our identity hopefully not to the ludicrous length xyz proposes which is a United Europe in all but name with one currency, one language who knows what else .... one anthem OOPS, they beat me to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_-KoBiBG0

[bjcb0]

None of these a.m. countries have lost their identity or souvereignty, even though we share the same currency and/or part of the E.U.

The benefits of being part of this institution does dramatically outperform the so-called negative side-effects.

I completely agree that the benefits of EU membership outweigh the disadvantages and certainly wish Britain had voted to remain. That said, your statement Eurozone countries have lost none of their sovereignty is not quite the case. Spain, Portugal, Italy and, of course, Greece have all seen unemployment rise (in some cases dramatically) as a consequence of the one-size-fits-all Euro monetary policy, pushed above all by Germany, and all have been greatly constrained in their response to this economic shock precisely because they're part of a rather rigid currency union. Now certainly some of those economic problems have been self-inflicted and Greece should not have entered the Euro in the first place, but I would still argue that German monetary policy (and a certain unwillingness to help their weaker Euro neighbours when enjoying a large Euro surplus) is a much greater threat to the EU than Britain's eccentric decision to leave the EU.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

@G-Type
hat would be the best way to fight overpopulation and economic immigration.

War, Famine and Pestilence are better!

[scoundrel]

G-Type has given a practical example of how open borders and a common travel area can be beneficial. There has been a similar common travel area between Britain and Ireland since 1922, when the Irish Free State came into legal existence. When I toured Ireland on my motorcycle in 2001, the only formalities I had to go through was being questioned on whether I had visited any farms, as foot and mouth disease was going around in the UK at the time. They sprayed disinfectant on the tyres of my motorcycle and on my boots as a precaution.

You see, it is not necessary to have an EU for this purpose. Neighbouring states can and do accomodate one another without needing to allow the citizens of 20 or more third party nations to also come and go without any checks. A common travel area between France and Germany (and probably Switzerland and the Benelux countries as well) would make sense. Extending that courtesy to people who are not citizens of France, Germany, Switzerland and the Benelux countries is not quite so sensible.

Sovereign nations can and do negotiate and form various arrangements including common travel agreements. It is not necessary to "pool" (i.e. forfeit) your national sovereignty to do this.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

War, Famine and Pestilence are better!

That's not true. More you push population on pressure, more they think to reproduce themselves.
More the life is good, less they want to reproduce their genes.

You only need to compare the actual European birth rate with the actual African one.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

That's not true. More you push population on pressure, more they think to reproduce themselves.
More the life is good, less they want to reproduce their genes.

You only need to compare the actual European birth rate with the actual African one.

I suspect the link is more towards the rights and status of women. When men are calling the shots, women will typically have a lot of children. When women are deciding how many children they themselves want to have, the birth rate goes down rapidly.

[jacques22]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

The UK experience is slightly different, we were misled as to the future direction of the EEC as it was then.

A great British statesman, Churchill, was already calling for a United States of Europe in the 1940's:
https://europa.eu/european-union/sit...urchill_en.pdf
Churchill sounded more radical than some Remainers. So it's hard to argue that the UK was misled.

Originally Posted by scoundrel

There has been a similar common travel area between Britain and Ireland since 1922, when the Irish Free State came into legal existence. When I toured Ireland on my motorcycle in 2001, the only formalities I had to go through was being questioned on whether I had visited any farms, as foot and mouth disease was going around in the UK at the time. (...) You see, it is not necessary to have an EU for this purpose.

You seem to forget the Troubles (thousands of casualties). Crossing the border between the Republic and Northern Ireland wasn't as safe as today. Also, you mention your experience in 2001. Don't forget that the Good Friday Agreement, signed in 1998 and effective in 1999, made your travel much easier.
The Good Friday Agreement was only possible because Ireland and the UK were both EU members who joined the Single Market in 1993. As you know, the Single Market is defined by the 4 freedoms (free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour). So being part of the EU was definitely a necessity for both Ireland and the UK to enjoy that much freedom while travelling.

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

That's not true. More you push population on pressure, more they think to reproduce themselves.

Pestilence , done properly, could sort out the problems of the World.

The Black Death, for example killed somewhere close to 60% of Europe's population. This time just don't let the survivors breed so much afterwards.

No more queues , no crowded transport , no fighting for a spot next to the hotel swimming pool , falling property prices.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

Pestilence , done properly, could sort out the problems of the World.

The Black Death, for example killed somewhere close to 60% of Europe's population. This time just don't let the survivors breed so much afterwards.

No more queues , no crowded transport , no fighting for a spot next to the hotel swimming pool , falling property prices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOw30jJ_cOw