Is Russia being unfairly portrayed in western media ?

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by palo5

Scotland's winters are warmer than Ukraine's. That might be why your friend's wife likes it. But it rains more, so far as I know. Does she like whisky?

Don't know how she feels about whisky , I know she doesn't like the fact that it rains all Summer [and all Autumn , Spring and Winter].

I think what she likes most about Scotland is her new husband's large salary and the complete absence of Russian tanks.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

People always talk about how Communism has wrecked Russia, but I have to point out that none of us westerners know how bad things really were under the Czars either.

Russia could really be a truly great superpower, if only it could somehow find its feet, seems like it has never really had the chance.

For all the horrors of Communism, they did have major accomplishments in education, science, and holding off the Nazis. Really, it is easy to imagine that they might have done better had not 13.7% of its people perished in World War II. The Nazis killed many children, and the loss of so many men made regenerating the population very difficult.

On the other hand, Russia has limited potential as a superpower. It is huge, but has a relatively small percentage of arable land. Like Canada, much of the country is sparsely settled. If climate change moves temperate zones northwards, Russia stands to benefit enormously.

[sobaka]

Originally Posted by palo5

They're rarely accurate. But for their own corrupt reasons -- it has to do with power and money -- US and closely allied governments have an agenda to make Russia look like the devil.

This is the standard nashi bull shit line. No one has an agenda to make russia look bad, to be honest most really don't care. the russian government does though have an interest in ensuring that its gullible populace believes that the rest of the world is out to get them. This us vs them mentality enables the corrupt siloviki to maintain their power and money.

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

For all the horrors of Communism, they did have major accomplishments in education, science, and holding off the Nazis. Really, it is easy to imagine that they might have done better had not 13.7% of its people perished in World War II. The Nazis killed many children, and the loss of so many men made regenerating the population very difficult.

On the other hand, Russia has limited potential as a superpower. It is huge, but has a relatively small percentage of arable land. Like Canada, much of the country is sparsely settled. If climate change moves temperate zones northwards, Russia stands to benefit enormously.

But we can't ignore the elimination of so many citizens by the Soviet government itself, either. Stalin starved millions in the name of collectivization, not to mention the multitudes killed outright for being "enemies of the state".

If things had been properly managed, it's possible to imagine an alternate Russia today with a population of 200+ million citizens all living in much better economic circumstances.

In a very real sense, Russia has been crippled by history. Tatar hordes, cruel Czars, hugely greedy noble class, then Bolsheviks, then rampaging Nazis, etc.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

But we can't ignore the elimination of so many citizens by the Soviet government itself, either. Stalin starved millions in the name of collectivization, not to mention the multitudes killed outright for being "enemies of the state".

If things had been properly managed, it's possible to imagine an alternate Russia today with a population of 200+ million citizens all living in much better economic circumstances.

It is surprising that you didn't note that Stalin's military purge was a big reason the Nazi's rolled into the USSR so easily, which meant death for millions of civilians. The bad stuff is not being ignored, but the tendency in the West is to totally overlook the very real accomplishments. It would be like totally overlooking the tremendous education system built in the United States during the 19th century.

One of the challenges of doing genealogy research in the United States is the lack of literacy in the 19th century, particularly in the rural and frontier areas where my ancestors lived. This is no longer true by the turn of the century when secondary education became common.

China can serve as a useful parallel. Yes, they were held back for a generation and tens of millions of people died under Mao's demented leadership. But are you going to ignore that they have leapfrogged so many nations to become the world's second largest economy in the 40 years since his death? In contrast, India is still trying to get its act together.

[seany65]

Originally Posted by sobaka

This is the standard nashi bull shit line. No one has an agenda to make russia look bad, to be honest most really don't care. the russian government does though have an interest in ensuring that its gullible populace believes that the rest of the world is out to get them. This us vs them mentality enables the corrupt siloviki to maintain their power and money.

You're mistaken there.

The Rich and powerful of the west have a vested interest in portraying everyone else as 'The Baddies', to keep the western population scared of everyone else so that they don't argue too much when all the money is spent on weapons and bombing and destroying other countries.

It also keeps the western population's minds off the shit done by the rich and powerful to them.

You'll notice how the countries the western rich and poweful label as 'The Baddies' change every 5 minutes.

Its partly to keep the western population confused.

You'll also find that the rich and powerful of the 'East' label western countries as 'The Baddies'.

This is basically for the same reasons (though they don't do quite as much of the 'bombing and destroying of other countries' thing).

In fact most 'boss classes' of most countries do this to a certain degree.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by seany65

In fact most 'boss classes' of most countries do this to a certain degree.

It is true that we in the United States receive particularly poor reviews in the press of China, North Korea, and Russia.

It is good to see some residents of Krasnodar have caught the entrepreneurial spirit of capitalism and tried to start their own businesses.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b02aef6cd64d9a

[BondJmsBond]

I remember well In the early 90's having a very real and emotional hope that the US and Russia would become friendly, cooperate in every way we could, and move forward in peace and prosperity together in a better world.

I was young.

[haroldeye]

Originally Posted by BondJmsBond

I remember well In the early 90's having a very real and emotional hope that the US and Russia would become friendly, cooperate in every way we could, and move forward in peace and prosperity together in a better world.

I was young.

I was appalled at the way the West, especially the Americans,treated Russia in the 90's. Instead of helping the Russians through the transit to a western style democracy the West seemed to take the view of you're on your own get on with it. By now the Russians should have been tied in with trade agreements and even possibly NATO membership. Sadly we did sod all to help them.

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

It is surprising that you didn't note that Stalin's military purge was a big reason the Nazi's rolled into the USSR so easily, which meant death for millions of civilians. The bad stuff is not being ignored, but the tendency in the West is to totally overlook the very real accomplishments. It would be like totally overlooking the tremendous education system built in the United States during the 19th century.

One of the challenges of doing genealogy research in the United States is the lack of literacy in the 19th century, particularly in the rural and frontier areas where my ancestors lived. This is no longer true by the turn of the century when secondary education became common.

China can serve as a useful parallel. Yes, they were held back for a generation and tens of millions of people died under Mao's demented leadership. But are you going to ignore that they have leapfrogged so many nations to become the world's second largest economy in the 40 years since his death? In contrast, India is still trying to get its act together.

Given Germany's qualitative superiority in blitzkrieg tactics, I think the initial phase of operation Barbarossa would have gone much the same way even if Stalin had not purged the Soviet military. But Stalin's hasty "rehabilitation" of exiled officers in the gulags did undoubtedly help turn the tide later on.

I wouldn't overlook Soviet accomplishments in education either. They progressed a lot. What is the saying, "Stalin found the Soviet Union with the wooden plow and left it with the hydrogen bomb"? Or something like that.

But it doesn't help matters much if you educate all of your peasants and then shoot a quarter of them or send them to the gulag for "state treason" a few years later.

Originally Posted by haroldeye

I was appalled at the way the West, especially the Americans,treated Russia in the 90's. Instead of helping the Russians through the transit to a western style democracy the West seemed to take the view of you're on your own get on with it. By now the Russians should have been tied in with trade agreements and even possibly NATO membership. Sadly we did sod all to help them.

I think the attitude of Western businessmen towards Russia in the early 90s was, "Oooh! cheap European labor! Let's get in there and see if we can make a bunch of money!"

Basically, they wanted to get in there and exploit Russians like they were white Mexicans or something.

Bad call.