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Old May 25th, 2019, 05:56 PM   #6561
frankoboff
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Originally Posted by otokonomidori View Post
"Zero concessions"? The Barnet Formula - the first [ unsuccessful] devolution referendum to name but two.

There's been too damned many concessions made to the haggis-fanciers.
Re: Barnett Formula- Something dreamed up by someone in London for people in Scotland that didn't really work. Unsucessful devolution ref- exactly.

Again, I think you're missing the point about the SNP. I'm a Unionist but support the SNP and like N.S. Maybe take some time to sit down and figure that one out.
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Old May 25th, 2019, 05:57 PM   #6562
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It was Thatcher, Major and Blair's governments. Mrs Thatcher laid the foundations. Not up on the specifics of N.I politics but there was some devolvement of power in the 80s that lead to the GFA in the 90s, IIRC. I know the UK Government and Sinn Fein had open lines of communication.

Wanting peace in N.I isn't selling out your country. Also remember that large swathes of the UK's population identify at least in part, as Irish and Catholic.
Ancestrally, my roots are Catholic on my father's side, but my family have been Protestants on both sides since my grandparents time. But I think you will find there never was much sympathy for the IRA in mainland Britain, not even among people of Irish Catholic tradition. That certainly became a deeply felt antipathy after the various attacks on the mainland such as the Birmingham and Guildford pub bombings and the M62 coach bombing - that bomb exploded between Junctions 26 and 27, which are the local exits for my childhood home town, and the detonation was barely 2 miles from where my mother still lives and where I grew up.

I am glad we are at peace now (mostly); but I have merely shelved my hatred of the IRA as my own duty to everyone's best interests. I don't want to ever need to go back to those dark days but I haven't forgotten who they are or what they did. Mr Corbyn betrayed me and people such as me when he posed for the cameras with our enemies in the days when we were fighting them. Once again, I intend no action - that would be extremely wrong. But I haven't forgotten what he did nor ever shall I.
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Old May 25th, 2019, 08:24 PM   #6563
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Also, The symbolic wearing of workers attire to an event that the Conservatives were politicising was entirely appropriate. Well played Foot.


According to Mr Foot's wife, who dressed him that day, he was wearing his best overcoat and a tie. There was no attempt to denigrate the Remembrance Day proceedings or for any symbolism.



The events on Remembrance Sunday have followed the same pattern for many years, how and by what means were the Conservative Party politicising them?


I don't know your background, but as a working class, miners son I find your comment about workers attire, deeply insulting, classist and pompous.


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Old May 25th, 2019, 08:40 PM   #6564
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I never really held it against Michael Foot about the donkey jacket. In fact, I rather liked Michael Foot and I do respect his track record of standing up for the freedom of the press - slightly ungrateful that they consistently traduced him as Labour leader. But he was ineffectual, could not control the troops, and I'm afraid Labour lost me for good over the Falklands War, when it became painfully obvious that they would not have fought the Argentinians. That I could never forgive.

I see Mr Corbyn as just such another "pacifist", but nothing like as decent or genuine a man as Mr Foot used to be. It is very worrying ot me that Mr Corbyn could seriously be our future prime minister. If it happens, it will be due to the utter shambles the Tory Party have made of Brexit (getting back on topic) and I will feel unable to support any of our parties.
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Old May 25th, 2019, 08:49 PM   #6565
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Corbyn didn't want peace in Northern Ireland or Israel/Palestine. He wanted/wants victory for the PIRA and Hammas. HMG had lines of communication open with terrorist groups in NI because it was necessary. Jeremy talked to one side because it made him feel good.


Foot was an intellectual lefty of the old school, but I too thought he got a very bad deal from the press over the Cenotaph affair. He was always a scruffy twat but he wore his best clothes that day.

Last edited by haroldeye; May 25th, 2019 at 09:03 PM..
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Old May 25th, 2019, 09:33 PM   #6566
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Originally Posted by haroldeye View Post
Also, The symbolic wearing of workers attire to an event that the Conservatives were politicising was entirely appropriate. Well played Foot.


According to Mr Foot's wife, who dressed him that day, he was wearing his best overcoat and a tie. There was no attempt to denigrate the Remembrance Day proceedings or for any symbolism.



The events on Remembrance Sunday have followed the same pattern for many years, how and by what means were the Conservative Party politicising them?


I don't know your background, but as a working class, miners son I find your comment about workers attire, deeply insulting, classist and pompous.


Two answers in one- Whether he wore donky jacket or not, by claiming he donkey jacket on rememberance day they are saying that he is both militant and disrespectful. The donkey jacket is symbolic of militant trade union politics and isn't formal attire.

A government or politican showing overt reverence towards national identity, placing undue empahsis on national identity whilst declaring the political oppostion to be less reverant or lacking in reverence for political gain. It is a government's call to declare a day of celebration or national holdiay. This is often (usually) done for political reasons rather than a genuine reverance.

Last edited by frankoboff; May 25th, 2019 at 10:03 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old May 25th, 2019, 10:24 PM   #6567
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Corbyn didn't want peace in Northern Ireland or Israel/Palestine. He wanted/wants victory for the PIRA and Hammas. HMG had lines of communication open with terrorist groups in NI because it was necessary. Jeremy talked to one side because it made him feel good.
I'm baffled how Corbyn can be both a 'Israel/UK hating terrorist sympathiser' and a 'uselss pacifist too scared to press the nuclear button'.
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Old May 25th, 2019, 10:52 PM   #6568
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large swathes of the UK's population identify at least in part, as Irish and Catholic.
About 10% are left footers according to the Internet
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Old May 26th, 2019, 04:08 AM   #6569
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I'm baffled how Corbyn can be both a 'Israel/UK hating terrorist sympathiser' and a 'uselss pacifist too scared to press the nuclear button'.
The common denominator is that he has no commitment to defending this country.
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Old May 26th, 2019, 04:58 AM   #6570
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My predictions....
Boris to be next pm.
General election called.
Needs the lib dems to be propped up in power.
Another referendum on the lib dems insistence.
No brexit.

And in 30vyears time the script for it all is revealed.
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