Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Mal Hombre]

"Council of Experts " ? I can just imagine what Stalin would done with a Council of Experts..

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Notice that this thread is called "what do you really know about Communism" -- apparently, what _you_ really know about Communism, is that you can only defend it by talking about something else.

Not to mention changing the definition of Communism weekly or when it's convenient

So far we have varying forms of a failed system with one underlying thing...

Communists
Socialists
Marxists
Marxists Socialists
Anarcho Socialists
Anarcho Marxists
Fake Communists, Oh I love that one


The vast majority of people on the planet know it's a flawed system and wouldn't want it otherwise we'd be living it

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

"Council of Experts " ? I can just imagine what Stalin would done with a Council of Experts..

Shot them

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

The vast majority of people on the planet know it's a flawed system and wouldn't want it otherwise we'd be living it

Actually, that's not true. Not that you'd know, because you don't even like representation for workers, ie, Labor Unions

But here's an interesting fact for you: when questioned on individual issues, such as universal healthcare, free college education, downscaling the military, getting big money out of politics and a whole range of others, more than 60% of Americans agree with Bernie Sanders. Of course his name wasn't mentioned, but they are his policies

The same is true for Mr Corbyn's policies in the UK. If you ask people about individual policies without mentioning his name, most people favor them

But many will immediately disagree if you mention the names of the two politicians. And if you mention the dread-word socialism, which almost everyone agrees with without knowing it, it's an instant turn-off because of the diseased propaganda used by western states and media. It's brainwashing of the worst kind

Only education can help you, Comrade

[cginok]

Originally Posted by palo5

Actually, that's not true. Not that you'd know, because you don't even like representation for workers, ie, Labor Unions

But here's an interesting fact for you: when questioned on individual issues, such as universal healthcare, free college education, downscaling the military, getting big money out of politics and a whole range of others, more than 60% of Americans agree with Bernie Sanders. Of course his name wasn't mentioned, but they are his policies

The same is true for Mr Corbyn's policies in the UK. If you ask people about individual policies without mentioning his name, most people favor them

But many will immediately disagree if you mention the names of the two politicians. And if you mention the dread-word socialism, which almost everyone agrees with without knowing it, it's an instant turn-off because of the diseased propaganda used by western states and media. It's brainwashing of the worst kind

Only education can help you, Comrade

Of course people love those things, who doesn't like a free lunch? Only problem is, there is no such thing as a "free" anything. Someone, somewhere, will be paying for it. Ask people if they like universal health care/free college educations, and of course they'll say yes. Then ask them how much they're willing to have their taxes raised to pay for it, and you'll get an entirely different answer.

As to money in politics. It's irrelevant what people's opinions are because the only ones whose opinions matter on the topic...that would be the Supreme Court...have already ruled on that issue. Asking people's opinions on that topic is a moot point.

[cginok]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Like a green lobby group or can they be included as an OK lobby group but not others




Perfect, Americans at work Umm, aren't planes bad for the environment making money for whatever kind of company they are, burning fossil fuels , dropping bombs carrying capitalist goods, taking people on holidays to spend more on tourist crap ..... Interesting you'd bring up an invention that has caused nothing but pain, for social anarchists.

More like capitalists at work. They did own several businesses after all.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by cginok

Of course people love those things, who doesn't like a free lunch? Only problem is, there is no such thing as a "free" anything. Someone, somewhere, will be paying for it. Ask people if they like universal health care/free college educations, and of course they'll say yes. Then ask them how much they're willing to have their taxes raised to pay for it, and you'll get an entirely different answer

There's a very simple reason for that in the US. To paraphrase Gore Vidal "People hate taxes in America because they don't get anything back for them -- it's all wasted on the military". Under those conditions, who would want to pay taxes?

What would they say if their tax money was spent like ours?

Where I live we pay high taxes. Even the unemployed & pensioners. No one would mind paying less, but we all know that for the most part the money is used wisely and for the social good. We have universal healthcare, free college education, and outperform the US & UK and almost everyone in the world by a long way in education comparisons. We have a small military, and no problems with political finance. We have a large welfare state, and all support it

There's no such thing as a free lunch? Actually there is, if people need it, but it's a well-organized government program, and there are almost no freeloaders

I'll tell you something else: US students have been polled many times on this question, and they always give the same answer: Do you agree with this policy?: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". They always agree with it, and many of them think it's in the Bill of Rights!

But in fact, it's pure Karl Marx

Nice to know you agree with us without knowing it

[scoundrel]

It would probably be possible to isolate individual quotes from Hitler or Pol Pot which, out of context, seem plausible and reasonable. But agreeing with such statements will not mean that you have just endorsed the whole program of Hitler or Pol Pot.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

It would probably be possible to isolate individual quotes from Hitler or Pol Pot which, out of context, seem plausible and reasonable. But agreeing with such statements will not mean that you have just endorsed the whole program of Hitler or Pol Pot.

We know. But the thread is about communism, not how despots misused it, or how the west misrepresents it today

What you should know is, Marx is responsible for more change in modern social thinking than almost anyone. Think about your own social services, mostly copied from German ideas influenced by Marx, and you'll see how true it is

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

We know. But the thread is about communism, not how despots misrepresented it, or how the west misrepresents it today

What you should know is, Marx is responsible for more change in modern social thinking than almost anyone. Think about your own social services, mostly copied from German ideas influenced by Marx, and you'll see how true it is

I remember being taught at school that the first country to introduce old age pensions was Germany in the 1880s and that the idea came from Count Otto von Bismarck. He was not particularly a disciple of Marx.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I remember being taught at school that the first country to introduce old age pensions was Germany in the 1880s and that the idea came from Count Otto von Bismarck. He was not particularly a disciple of Marx.

Have you ever read what Bismarck thought? If you can say something like that, it looks like you haven't

You are taught that Bismarck represented "Blut und Eisen" and German militarism, everything that the UK was taught for generations to despise, while quietly being taught that the gentlemanly British Empire was morally superior, despite being far worse

But history is catching up with you