The First World War - Page 172

**scoundrel** · April 16th, 2016, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alessandro1

Ottoman,Russia and Germany much lost,other less lost
war never bring a winner.

regards

The winners tend to be profiteers and people behind the scenes. Ordinary people are usually the main losers. Neutral countries often do well. The trouble is, the decision makers do not care enough about the people they govern. As for the people, there is a dark side to humanity. We like war much much more than we should. Peace and prosperity only go on for so long before people get bored.

alessandro1 · April 16th, 2016, 10:20 AM

yeah,I meant the folks,civils,families and soldiers shortly all humans

regards

**rupertramjet** · April 17th, 2016, 09:50 AM

The football match played between British and German soldiers during the Christmas Truce at the Western Front is known to many. But few know of a rugby match played just behind the frontline between soldiers from Cornwall and Devon. Many of the Cornishmen were from Camborne RFC; the club that supplied the ball.
Writing home to his family in Camborne, Private Ernest Fletcher explained how they managed to bring the game they loved to war torn France:
“Through the kindness of Camborne Football Club, who were good enough to send us a rugby ball, we, the 25th Field Ambulance, have been able to organise a series of matches between the Cornish lads and the Devon lads. The first match proved a victory for the Devons by 2 tries to nil. A week later we shifted down the line near La Bassee and played a return match which proved a win for the Cornish lads by 2 tries to a dropped goal. Capt. W. Blackwood of Camborne kicked off in each match.”

Camborne RFC has compiled the team lists for the final match:
CORNWALL
Back - R. Brown,
Three Quarters - W. Bosanko, R. Chinn, J. Soloman, R. Treeby
Half Backs - E. Fletcher, Paltridge
Forwards - L.R. Pentecost, A.J. Williams, F. Head, E. Bray, W. Trimm, F. Negus, A. Young, Dunstan.
DEVON
Back - F. Lovell
Three Quarters - G. Lovell, Sergt. Pike, E. Curtis, F. Williams.
Half Backs - W. Eliott, C. Evans
Forwards - Mullins, Reed, Sergt. Cross, Downing, Walters, Whitford, Pepperell, Sergt. Patey.
Linesmen - W. Brookes, E. Rule.
Referee - Sergt. John Phillips (Camborne)
Descendants of these players uncovered the story during a local history project.
“How brave he was, being a miner in Dolcoath isn’t the best thing for your chest. And if he could run with a rugby ball that must have been a thing,” says Chris Negus, grandson of Fred Negus.
The Cornish lads finally secured victory – according to Ernie’s account published in the local newspaper:
“After having a few days in the trenches we arranged the final which ended in a victory for the Cornishmen by a try to nil. The Cornish lads well deserved their win as, in the last match they were handicapped by Brown, their back, having to retire within the first fifteen minutes. This match was played on Whit Monday and instead of having the privilege of listening to the bands in Camborne, we had the music of the guns. One of the best Cornish Forwards, Penhorwood of Newquay, late Police Constable at Bodmin, was killed after the first game during our stay in the trenches” – an extract from Ernie Fletcher’s letter, which featured in W. Briton News.
The final score of the game was 2:1 to Cornwall.

Credit BBC Radio Cornwall

**rotobott** · April 17th, 2016, 10:18 AM

Re that rugby match which Cornwall won 2 games to one, here's a BBC radio article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02n7k65

**palo5** · June 1st, 2016, 05:24 PM

Yesterday was the 100. anniversary of the Battle of Jutland / Skagerrakschlacht 1916, the biggest battle in naval history

Numerically, it looked like a German victory -- 3 British capital ships sunk and no significant German ships sunk, 6,000 British dead against 2,500 German dead

But strategically it changed nothing, because the British still controlled access to the Atlantic, at least on the surface

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skagerrakschlacht

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jutland

**haroldeye** · June 1st, 2016, 09:07 PM

There was an interesting programme on the BBC on Sunday. Dan Snow was his useless self running around telling everyone how clever he was by repeating well documented facts as though he had just discovered them. There was, however, a great find in Shini Somara, a gorgeous babe and an intelligent and competent engineer. Shini got the naval architecture experts to compare ship design and build to see if the British battlecruisers were less well designed than the German ones (they weren't) and with Snow looked at the effects of cordite burning in an enclosed space. A star in the making.

The programme let itself down by suggesting that it was the Nelson spirit of attacking and firing as quickly as possible rather than the incompetence of Admiral Beatty, in both his tactics and his handling of his ships that caused the RN to take so many casualties.

**footstep** · June 2nd, 2016, 05:38 AM

Verdun 100 years.

For all dead
whatever their nationality.

**Dr Pepper** · June 2nd, 2016, 06:03 AM

Still Jutland allowed Beatty to go down in history with his memorable quote 'there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!' as the third British battlecruiser blew up catastrophically...

The battle did result in a significant reassessment of ammunition handling safety procedures on British capital ships-in terms of scuttles, flash proof doors safety interlocks and the like.......ironically these came back 25 years later (almost to the week!) to bite the British once again-during the battle of the Denmark Strait. We all know how and why (by now) HMS Hood was lost-ironic in that she was extensively redesigned as a DIRECT result of the Battle of Jutland-and the known design weaknesses partially rectified (but only re-armoured over the front magazines, not the aft ones-but equally ironic-and less known-is that Prince of Wales (and KGV later in the final battle) had all kinds of gunnery problems with their 14" main armament-in the case of PoW exacerbated by the fact that she was brand new-but equally inescapable-the fact that the quadruple turrets were so complex and had so many safety interlocks and linkages that periodic failures and jams were inevitable. Very few other countries tried 4 gun turrets-the French with their Dunkerque and Richelieu classes-but the latter were effectively two twin mounts in a single gunhouse rather than four independently mounted guns. The latter class at least has the distinction of staying in service long after the Royal Navy scrapped their battleships

As with the Battle of the Denmark Strait, there are some excellent Youtube documentaries on the Battle of Jutland which are well worth viewing-as well as some recent marine archaeology type docos on the various wrecks. These latter offer some fascinating insights into what happened to the ships themselves. The British losses seem largely due (ignoring poor tactics) to many of the ships being grossly overloaded with ammunition-to the point where cordite charges were not stowed correctly in magazines, but stacked anywhere there was space between the magazine and the gun house itself-thereby guaranteeing a direct flash path to the magazine in the event of any hit.
IIRC the toll could have been higher yet-one ship whose name escapes me for the moment was only saved because a mortally wounded RM major commanding the turret gave the order to 'flood magazine' as he was dying-following a direct hit on the turret, followed by a fire-and just succeeded in preventing another magazine explosion. Again IIRC he may well have got a posthumous VC for this action. No doubt 'historian' or 'ennath' with chime in here with the correct details....

**haroldeye** · June 2nd, 2016, 07:19 AM

HMS Lion. Beatty's flagship took a direct hit on a turret and Major Harvey RM was awarded the VC for flooding a magazine and saving the ship.

Research on the wreck of the Hood found cordite bags in the turrets. The RN had blamed safety interlocks for the explosions in 1916, they ignored the fact that the gun crews stored extra bags in the turrets in order to speed up the rate of fire.

**rupertramjet** · June 2nd, 2016, 10:51 AM

Slightly sad note, Prince Philip was unable to Attend the Jutland commemorative ceremony. In a lot of cases this would be less of a concern. But as one of our few surviving WWII naval veterans, and having had a naval career before and after he married the Queen, it is a little sad. Add to this his age (94) and one has to worry about the old fella.

April 17th, 2016, 09:50 AM	#1713
rupertramjet R.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cloud cuckoo land Posts: 4,300 Thanks: 26,852 Thanked 54,117 Times in 4,288 Posts	The football match played between British and German soldiers during the Christmas Truce at the Western Front is known to many. But few know of a rugby match played just behind the frontline between soldiers from Cornwall and Devon. Many of the Cornishmen were from Camborne RFC; the club that supplied the ball. Writing home to his family in Camborne, Private Ernest Fletcher explained how they managed to bring the game they loved to war torn France: “Through the kindness of Camborne Football Club, who were good enough to send us a rugby ball, we, the 25th Field Ambulance, have been able to organise a series of matches between the Cornish lads and the Devon lads. The first match proved a victory for the Devons by 2 tries to nil. A week later we shifted down the line near La Bassee and played a return match which proved a win for the Cornish lads by 2 tries to a dropped goal. Capt. W. Blackwood of Camborne kicked off in each match.” Camborne RFC has compiled the team lists for the final match: CORNWALL Back - R. Brown, Three Quarters - W. Bosanko, R. Chinn, J. Soloman, R. Treeby Half Backs - E. Fletcher, Paltridge Forwards - L.R. Pentecost, A.J. Williams, F. Head, E. Bray, W. Trimm, F. Negus, A. Young, Dunstan. DEVON Back - F. Lovell Three Quarters - G. Lovell, Sergt. Pike, E. Curtis, F. Williams. Half Backs - W. Eliott, C. Evans Forwards - Mullins, Reed, Sergt. Cross, Downing, Walters, Whitford, Pepperell, Sergt. Patey. Linesmen - W. Brookes, E. Rule. Referee - Sergt. John Phillips (Camborne) Descendants of these players uncovered the story during a local history project. “How brave he was, being a miner in Dolcoath isn’t the best thing for your chest. And if he could run with a rugby ball that must have been a thing,” says Chris Negus, grandson of Fred Negus. The Cornish lads finally secured victory – according to Ernie’s account published in the local newspaper: “After having a few days in the trenches we arranged the final which ended in a victory for the Cornishmen by a try to nil. The Cornish lads well deserved their win as, in the last match they were handicapped by Brown, their back, having to retire within the first fifteen minutes. This match was played on Whit Monday and instead of having the privilege of listening to the bands in Camborne, we had the music of the guns. One of the best Cornish Forwards, Penhorwood of Newquay, late Police Constable at Bodmin, was killed after the first game during our stay in the trenches” – an extract from Ernie Fletcher’s letter, which featured in W. Briton News. The final score of the game was 2:1 to Cornwall. Credit BBC Radio Cornwall Last edited by rupertramjet; April 17th, 2016 at 11:26 AM..

June 1st, 2016, 05:24 PM	#1715
palo5 Former Staff Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 16,579 Thanks: 452,836 Thanked 222,657 Times in 16,567 Posts	Jutland / Skagerrak 1916 Yesterday was the 100. anniversary of the Battle of Jutland / Skagerrakschlacht 1916, the biggest battle in naval history Numerically, it looked like a German victory -- 3 British capital ships sunk and no significant German ships sunk, 6,000 British dead against 2,500 German dead But strategically it changed nothing, because the British still controlled access to the Atlantic, at least on the surface https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skagerrakschlacht https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jutland

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April 16th, 2016, 10:20 AM	#1712
alessandro1 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Napoli Posts: 45 Thanks: 198 Thanked 395 Times in 39 Posts	yeah,I meant the folks,civils,families and soldiers shortly all humans regards

April 17th, 2016, 10:18 AM	#1714
rotobott Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 32,103 Thanks: 174,766 Thanked 634,538 Times in 31,424 Posts	Re that rugby match which Cornwall won 2 games to one, here's a BBC radio article. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02n7k65

June 1st, 2016, 09:07 PM	#1716
haroldeye Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Halfwitistan Posts: 5,715 Thanks: 113,479 Thanked 59,962 Times in 5,707 Posts	There was an interesting programme on the BBC on Sunday. Dan Snow was his useless self running around telling everyone how clever he was by repeating well documented facts as though he had just discovered them. There was, however, a great find in Shini Somara, a gorgeous babe and an intelligent and competent engineer. Shini got the naval architecture experts to compare ship design and build to see if the British battlecruisers were less well designed than the German ones (they weren't) and with Snow looked at the effects of cordite burning in an enclosed space. A star in the making. The programme let itself down by suggesting that it was the Nelson spirit of attacking and firing as quickly as possible rather than the incompetence of Admiral Beatty, in both his tactics and his handling of his ships that caused the RN to take so many casualties.

June 2nd, 2016, 05:38 AM	#1717
footstep Lost luggages? Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: France Posts: 7,268 Thanks: 92,097 Thanked 86,759 Times in 7,170 Posts	Verdun 100 years. For all dead whatever their nationality.

June 2nd, 2016, 06:03 AM	#1718
Dr Pepper Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: NZ Posts: 4,035 Thanks: 70,712 Thanked 40,936 Times in 4,026 Posts	Still Jutland allowed Beatty to go down in history with his memorable quote 'there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!' as the third British battlecruiser blew up catastrophically... The battle did result in a significant reassessment of ammunition handling safety procedures on British capital ships-in terms of scuttles, flash proof doors safety interlocks and the like.......ironically these came back 25 years later (almost to the week!) to bite the British once again-during the battle of the Denmark Strait. We all know how and why (by now) HMS Hood was lost-ironic in that she was extensively redesigned as a DIRECT result of the Battle of Jutland-and the known design weaknesses partially rectified (but only re-armoured over the front magazines, not the aft ones-but equally ironic-and less known-is that Prince of Wales (and KGV later in the final battle) had all kinds of gunnery problems with their 14" main armament-in the case of PoW exacerbated by the fact that she was brand new-but equally inescapable-the fact that the quadruple turrets were so complex and had so many safety interlocks and linkages that periodic failures and jams were inevitable. Very few other countries tried 4 gun turrets-the French with their Dunkerque and Richelieu classes-but the latter were effectively two twin mounts in a single gunhouse rather than four independently mounted guns. The latter class at least has the distinction of staying in service long after the Royal Navy scrapped their battleships As with the Battle of the Denmark Strait, there are some excellent Youtube documentaries on the Battle of Jutland which are well worth viewing-as well as some recent marine archaeology type docos on the various wrecks. These latter offer some fascinating insights into what happened to the ships themselves. The British losses seem largely due (ignoring poor tactics) to many of the ships being grossly overloaded with ammunition-to the point where cordite charges were not stowed correctly in magazines, but stacked anywhere there was space between the magazine and the gun house itself-thereby guaranteeing a direct flash path to the magazine in the event of any hit. IIRC the toll could have been higher yet-one ship whose name escapes me for the moment was only saved because a mortally wounded RM major commanding the turret gave the order to 'flood magazine' as he was dying-following a direct hit on the turret, followed by a fire-and just succeeded in preventing another magazine explosion. Again IIRC he may well have got a posthumous VC for this action. No doubt 'historian' or 'ennath' with chime in here with the correct details....

June 2nd, 2016, 07:19 AM	#1719
haroldeye Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Halfwitistan Posts: 5,715 Thanks: 113,479 Thanked 59,962 Times in 5,707 Posts	HMS Lion. Beatty's flagship took a direct hit on a turret and Major Harvey RM was awarded the VC for flooding a magazine and saving the ship. Research on the wreck of the Hood found cordite bags in the turrets. The RN had blamed safety interlocks for the explosions in 1916, they ignored the fact that the gun crews stored extra bags in the turrets in order to speed up the rate of fire.

June 2nd, 2016, 10:51 AM	#1720
rupertramjet R.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cloud cuckoo land Posts: 4,300 Thanks: 26,852 Thanked 54,117 Times in 4,288 Posts	Slightly sad note, Prince Philip was unable to Attend the Jutland commemorative ceremony. In a lot of cases this would be less of a concern. But as one of our few surviving WWII naval veterans, and having had a naval career before and after he married the Queen, it is a little sad. Add to this his age (94) and one has to worry about the old fella.