Global Warming - Page 81

**bowlinggreen** · December 14th, 2017, 03:54 AM

Quote:

"Higher levels of CO2 are just not a good sign, period."
Oh yes...
Just like Crows!
Beware!

Read:

http://theconversation.com/another-l...-species-12906

VERY high levels of CO2 caused by volcanism are bad for everything.

Lesser rises might not be bad for all life, but they will be bad for YOUR kind of life. If the farmlands you depend on for food go arid and unproductive in a short period due to rising temps and drought, for example.

There is no 100% evidence that humans are the sole cause of what is happening, which I freely admit, but I'll just point out that when you take an empty hog barn in August and pack it full of hogs, that already hot hog barn gets even hotter. That is just common sense.

Insofar as crows go - they have made a big comeback where I live. They fly around in big flocks, and where they roost they shit all over everything. You don't want to leave your car out, under any inviting trees. Nasty critters. They are definitely a bad sign. And they'll probably inherit the earth, after we truly fuck it all up.

bavlion · December 14th, 2017, 09:32 AM

"https://history.aip.org/climate/co2.htm
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/ove...eenhouse-gases
https://climate.nasa.gov/causes/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...reenhouse-gas/"

I do not have the time to argue every aspect of your links - it would take days..
Describe the physical process how the atmosphere warms the surface of the earth by radiation and I will respond to that.

"I personally am very concerned about the massive amounts of methane being released into the atmosphere as a result of the rapidly thawing tundra."

As you should know, there have been several warmer times since the last ice age (medievial warm period, roman warm period etc.), all warmer than todays warm period.
As you will have noticed, during all these periods tundra was thawing, the planet heated up and all live was burnt. Then god came into town, took all the bad CO2 out of the atmosphere and created the paradise again.
Or so...

"Prof Macdougall presents a review of the scientific understanding of ice ages in layman friendly terms."

For today, the reason for an ice age is not understood.
nobody knows, why they last +100k years and the warm periods last ~10k.
If I were you, I would care more about the next ice age than that "global warming" BS.

bavlion · December 14th, 2017, 09:40 AM

"VERY high levels of CO2 caused by volcanism are bad for everything."

One of the figures I like most is "very". Comes next to "unbelievable high"...

100% CO2 in the atmosphere is "very" bad for humans, because they cannot breath O2 anymore.
0.04% are irrelevant, an optimum for the plants we see today is about 0.1% CO2.
This is 2.5 times the amount we have today.
If all known coal, gas and oil is burnt, the atmosphere can reach 0.06% CO2.
So relax...

bavlion · December 14th, 2017, 11:37 AM

"...when you take an empty hog barn in August and pack it full of hogs, that already hot hog barn gets even hotter. That is just common sense."

Yeahhhh

But is it "common sense" to link this example to the question if CO2 has influence on ground temperatures?

"...If the farmlands you depend on for food go arid and unproductive in a short period due to rising temps and drought, for example."

Oh yes!
Or lower temperature and floods.
Or fire falling out of the sky.
Or all Syrian refuges (forces to leave because of "climate change", as Bernie Sanders said) trampling over the fields and destroying the crops.

What has this BS to do with concentration of CO2???

bavlion · December 14th, 2017, 11:49 AM

"Insofar as crows go - they have made a big comeback where I live. They fly around in big flocks, and where they roost they shit all over everything. You don't want to leave your car out, under any inviting trees. Nasty critters. They are definitely a bad sign. And they'll probably inherit the earth, after we truly fuck it all up."

SURE

Only crows will survive the man made catastrophy.
And hobbits, of course.
Not to forget gremlins.

Think of all the poor, innocent baybies which will die because it will be 1°F warmer.
And do not forget the poor ice bears, which miraculously survived all the passed warm periods but will all die now.
Yes, mankind is so irrresponsible!

**Arturo2nd** · December 14th, 2017, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bavlion

"Insofar as crows go - they have made a big comeback where I live. They fly around in big flocks, and where they roost they shit all over everything. You don't want to leave your car out, under any inviting trees. Nasty critters. They are definitely a bad sign. And they'll probably inherit the earth, after we truly fuck it all up."

SURE

Only crows will survive the man made catastrophy.
And hobbits, of course.
Not to forget gremlins.

Think of all the poor, innocent baybies which will die because it will be 1°F warmer.
And do not forget the poor ice bears, which miraculously survived all the passed warm periods but will all die now.
Yes, mankind is so irrresponsible!

OK, so you don't have time to read even one short article that contradicts the misinformation you repeat, but you do have time to pretend you are smarter than every one else. The short form of the answer as to how the greenhouse gases warm the planet is that those gases trap heat near the surface of the planet. The heat melts ice. The loss of glaciers and polar ice causes more warming because the white ice reflects sunlight. And by the way, the tundra has been freezing and trapping greenhouse gases for tens of millions of years through multiple ice ages. We won't bother going into the effect the changing heat differential will have on the ocean currents and the havoc disrupting them will cause in weather patterns.

I am not a physicist, but happen to have friends that are. A very few are absolutely brilliant. But all have reviewed the literature and checked the math and are extremely concerned. To my mind, when Exxon, Chevron, BP, Shell, the Pentagon, etc say human caused climate change is a fact, who am I to argue?

I am not really concerned myself. Before I ever heard of global warming I looked at the destruction humans were causing, the overfishing, the deforestation and spreading deserts in areas that had once been the breadbaskets of empires, and concluded that we would cause our own extinction. It seems to me that as resources become scarce, there will be really horrible wars in which nuclear weapons are used and large swaths of former human habitat will be taken over by creatures that can endure big doses of radiation. After all, mass murder is our preferred method of population control. I have been convinced since my teens that greedy and power hungry people will continue to lead people as Hitler, Mao, and Stalin did last century. Time after time, I have seen voters in the United States put people in power who absolutely screwed the public over, and the voters idolized them. So, I have been convinced that the human race will kill itself off. The available evidence is rapidly making me right.

Lately my health struggles have started convincing me that I will be checking out sooner rather than later.. It does bother me that my nieces, nephews, and young cousins, many of whom are bright, charming, and caring people, will likely experience very unpleasant deaths. But, I have no sympathy at all for a bunch of ignorant ass wipes who persist in their denial and stupidity. I hope that they live long enough to see their children and grandchildren choking or starving to death, or maybe even disemboweled before their eyes.

God made us stewards of this planet. We've screwed it up. The Big Guy works on the principle that we shall suffer the consequences of our actions. Please tell me that you are in your thirties or forties so I can believe you will be around when things REALLY get ugly.

bavlion · December 14th, 2017, 02:53 PM

"The short form of the answer as to how the greenhouse gases warm the planet is that those gases trap heat near the surface of the planet."

Aha!
They trap heat...
Ähmm - how????????????????????????????????????

"I am not a physicist, but happen to have friends that are. A very few are absolutely brilliant. But all have reviewed the literature and checked the math and are extremely concerned."

What are they "concerned" about?
The dumbness of the people who believe this BS without any evidence??

" So, I have been convinced that the human race will kill itself off. The available evidence is rapidly making me right."

Oh, really?
What kind of "evidence" do you have for that???

"It does bother me that my nieces, nephews, and young cousins, many of whom are bright, charming, and caring people, will likely experience very unpleasant deaths."

Because it became 1°F warmer???

"...or maybe even disemboweled before their eyes."

Wow!
By whom?
Gremlins?

"We've screwed it up."

Really?

**rlg118** · December 14th, 2017, 03:31 PM

Patrick Moore is a former Greenpeace activist and one of the founding members, but he parted ways with the environmental group he helped create when they began to adopt opinions that he could not accept from his scientific perspective — primarily the notion that CO2 emissions are the cause of climate change.

“There’s been debate all through the last couple of hundred years in science, about the effect of what are called the ‘greenhouse gases.’ And CO2 — if you believe that the greenhouse gases do what some people say they do — is a greenhouse gas. Therefore, theoretically, increasing it in the atmosphere would cause some warming,” explained Moore, adding, “The problem is there is no actual evidence of that. The only thing we have is this modern warm period that we’re in, which is part of a one thousand year cycle of cooling and warming periods going back 3000 years…. So we are somewhat in the middle of what would be a normal warming period in the earth’s climate.”

**Arturo2nd** · December 14th, 2017, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bavlion

"The short form of the answer as to how the greenhouse gases warm the planet is that those gases trap heat near the surface of the planet."

Aha!
They trap heat...
Ähmm - how????????????????????????????????????

The technical term for the process is radiative forcing. Here is an EPA chart and a brief explanation from Wikipedia.

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicato...limate-forcing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing

You can google it for more detailed and technical explanations. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has a multi-chapter presentation on the topic that has much more detail and a lot more calculus.

bavlion · December 14th, 2017, 04:38 PM

"The technical term for the process is radiative forcing. Here is an EPA chart and a brief explanation from Wikipedia."

I know that. The point is:
It does not work according to the laws of physics!

"The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has a multi-chapter presentation on the topic that has much more detail and a lot more calculus."

Ipcc says that there is no evidence for the influence of CO2 on temperature.
But they do not say this in their summaries for politicians...

December 14th, 2017, 03:31 PM	#808
rlg118 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Land o' Lake-Effect Posts: 5,348 Thanks: 5,911 Thanked 113,482 Times in 5,360 Posts	Patrick Moore is a former Greenpeace activist and one of the founding members, but he parted ways with the environmental group he helped create when they began to adopt opinions that he could not accept from his scientific perspective — primarily the notion that CO2 emissions are the cause of climate change. “There’s been debate all through the last couple of hundred years in science, about the effect of what are called the ‘greenhouse gases.’ And CO2 — if you believe that the greenhouse gases do what some people say they do — is a greenhouse gas. Therefore, theoretically, increasing it in the atmosphere would cause some warming,” explained Moore, adding, “The problem is there is no actual evidence of that. The only thing we have is this modern warm period that we’re in, which is part of a one thousand year cycle of cooling and warming periods going back 3000 years…. So we are somewhat in the middle of what would be a normal warming period in the earth’s climate.” __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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December 14th, 2017, 09:32 AM	#802
bavlion Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10 Thanks: 41 Thanked 41 Times in 10 Posts	"https://history.aip.org/climate/co2.htm https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/ove...eenhouse-gases https://climate.nasa.gov/causes/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...reenhouse-gas/" I do not have the time to argue every aspect of your links - it would take days.. Describe the physical process how the atmosphere warms the surface of the earth by radiation and I will respond to that. "I personally am very concerned about the massive amounts of methane being released into the atmosphere as a result of the rapidly thawing tundra." As you should know, there have been several warmer times since the last ice age (medievial warm period, roman warm period etc.), all warmer than todays warm period. As you will have noticed, during all these periods tundra was thawing, the planet heated up and all live was burnt. Then god came into town, took all the bad CO2 out of the atmosphere and created the paradise again. Or so... "Prof Macdougall presents a review of the scientific understanding of ice ages in layman friendly terms." For today, the reason for an ice age is not understood. nobody knows, why they last +100k years and the warm periods last ~10k. If I were you, I would care more about the next ice age than that "global warming" BS.

December 14th, 2017, 09:40 AM	#803
bavlion Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10 Thanks: 41 Thanked 41 Times in 10 Posts	"VERY high levels of CO2 caused by volcanism are bad for everything." One of the figures I like most is "very". Comes next to "unbelievable high"... 100% CO2 in the atmosphere is "very" bad for humans, because they cannot breath O2 anymore. 0.04% are irrelevant, an optimum for the plants we see today is about 0.1% CO2. This is 2.5 times the amount we have today. If all known coal, gas and oil is burnt, the atmosphere can reach 0.06% CO2. So relax...

December 14th, 2017, 11:37 AM	#804
bavlion Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10 Thanks: 41 Thanked 41 Times in 10 Posts	"...when you take an empty hog barn in August and pack it full of hogs, that already hot hog barn gets even hotter. That is just common sense." Yeahhhh But is it "common sense" to link this example to the question if CO2 has influence on ground temperatures? "...If the farmlands you depend on for food go arid and unproductive in a short period due to rising temps and drought, for example." Oh yes! Or lower temperature and floods. Or fire falling out of the sky. Or all Syrian refuges (forces to leave because of "climate change", as Bernie Sanders said) trampling over the fields and destroying the crops. What has this BS to do with concentration of CO2???

December 14th, 2017, 11:49 AM	#805
bavlion Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10 Thanks: 41 Thanked 41 Times in 10 Posts	"Insofar as crows go - they have made a big comeback where I live. They fly around in big flocks, and where they roost they shit all over everything. You don't want to leave your car out, under any inviting trees. Nasty critters. They are definitely a bad sign. And they'll probably inherit the earth, after we truly fuck it all up." SURE Only crows will survive the man made catastrophy. And hobbits, of course. Not to forget gremlins. Think of all the poor, innocent baybies which will die because it will be 1°F warmer. And do not forget the poor ice bears, which miraculously survived all the passed warm periods but will all die now. Yes, mankind is so irrresponsible!

December 14th, 2017, 02:53 PM	#807
bavlion Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10 Thanks: 41 Thanked 41 Times in 10 Posts	"The short form of the answer as to how the greenhouse gases warm the planet is that those gases trap heat near the surface of the planet." Aha! They trap heat... Ähmm - how???????????????????????????????????? "I am not a physicist, but happen to have friends that are. A very few are absolutely brilliant. But all have reviewed the literature and checked the math and are extremely concerned." What are they "concerned" about? The dumbness of the people who believe this BS without any evidence?? " So, I have been convinced that the human race will kill itself off. The available evidence is rapidly making me right." Oh, really? What kind of "evidence" do you have for that??? "It does bother me that my nieces, nephews, and young cousins, many of whom are bright, charming, and caring people, will likely experience very unpleasant deaths." Because it became 1°F warmer??? "...or maybe even disemboweled before their eyes." Wow! By whom? Gremlins? "We've screwed it up." Really?

December 14th, 2017, 04:38 PM	#810
bavlion Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10 Thanks: 41 Thanked 41 Times in 10 Posts	"The technical term for the process is radiative forcing. Here is an EPA chart and a brief explanation from Wikipedia." I know that. The point is: It does not work according to the laws of physics! "The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has a multi-chapter presentation on the topic that has much more detail and a lot more calculus." Ipcc says that there is no evidence for the influence of CO2 on temperature. But they do not say this in their summaries for politicians...