Things Noticeable this week

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

Not at all. The reason you got that lousy deal from the EU is because of May's arbitrary "red lines" that no one voted for. With those conditions, the EU won't offer more

Corbyn can get a better result if he's not so dogmatic. But he would need a majority to do it

Mr Corbyn would not get a better result. He is actually both a bigger fuckwit than Mrs May (strange, but true) and even more hamstrung by party rebels than she is. He makes a big pose about refusing to enter into cross-party discussions with Mrs May unless she rules out a No Deal Brexit. Taken at face value, this is yet another excursion to CretinWorld. I wont talk to you about how we can work together to build a bus shelter unless you first guarantee that it isn't going to rain. But when you look at Labour's internal divisions, Corbyn's silly pose becomes not so silly. Many if not most of his MPs are vehemently hostile to the concept of leaving the EU, so he is looking for a face saving way of withholding all cooperation. So the man who talked to the PLO, the IRA, Hamas, and Hezbollah won't talk to Theresa May.

Yeah, right.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by CARLTON BROWN

Let's be realistic about what's been going on in Westminster. We have someone who is beginning to look slightly deranged running the country. She is only holding on to power because of support from a bunch of pro-religious zealots - who can't run their province properly. It doesn't matter what Corbyn and Co have said, the Labour Party are not in office and the fact is that the Tories are supposed to be running this country in a professional manner and doing their very best on behalf of the British people. A large number of Conservatives recognised that May was not up to the job some time ago and she now ranks as perhaps the worst UK PM in modern history.

I'm not sure she is worse than David Cameron, who took the extremely grave step of promising an EU referendum for an extremely paltry and self-interested reason.

Originally Posted by CARLTON BROWN

Forget the people who are seriously concerned about damaging the economy if you like, but May is going to destroy the Tory Party if things continue along the present path.

I don't really have the words to describe just how relaxed and comfortable I feel about the idea that Theresa May might destroy the Conservative Party. The party which wanted to bring back foxhunting and abolish free school meals for infants deserves anything it gets. That's before I even think about the Dementia Tax. Nah, I reckon Mrs May can stay and keep up the good work.

Originally Posted by CARLTON BROWN

She must stand down, or somehow be removed from the job by her colleagues as this power crazed woman doesn't have a clue what she is doing. Even if you are a diehard Conservative Daily Mail reader who is sworn to never fault any aspect of the party, it is hard to overlook just how badly things have gone.

It is difficult to imagine circumstances under which Theresa May would stand down. I think she will be PM until well beyond March 29 2019, unless the Queen personally sacks her, which is a royal power but one which hasn't been used since King William IV sacked the Whig government of Lord Melbourne in 1834.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by palo5

Not at all. The reason you got that lousy deal from the EU is because of May's arbitrary "red lines" that no one voted for. With those conditions, the EU won't offer more

Corbyn can get a better result if he's not so dogmatic. But he would need a majority to do it

Do you suppose well north of 17 million people voted Leave because they wanted to stay in the Single Market, stay in the Customs Union and uphold the free movement of labour? Logically, people voted to Leave because they wanted to meet the Labour Party's tests for supporting Leave:

• Fair migration system for UK business and communities
• Retaining strong, collaborative relationship with EU
• Protecting national security and tackling cross-border crime
• Delivering for all nations and regions of the UK
• Protecting workers' rights and employment protections
• Ensuring same benefits currently enjoyed within single market

Naturally, all of this was critically important to me when I voted Leave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcmXQU5BY4c

[CARLTON BROWN]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I'm not sure she is worse than David Cameron, who took the extremely grave step of promising an EU referendum for an extremely paltry and self-interested reason.

I don't really have the words to describe just how relaxed and comfortable I feel about the idea that Theresa May might destroy the Conservative Party. The party which wanted to bring back foxhunting and abolish free school meals for infants deserves anything it gets. That's before I even think about the Dementia Tax. Nah, I reckon Mrs May can stay and keep up the good work.

It is difficult to imagine circumstances under which Theresa May would stand down. I think she will be PM until well beyond March 29 2019, unless the Queen personally sacks her, which is a royal power but one which hasn't been used since King William IV sacked the Whig government of Lord Melbourne in 1834.

Scoundrel, I pretty much agree with all your comments. David Cameron repeatedly misled everyone and never thought there was any chance of the EU membership referendum going against the Government. He was simply worried about the chances of Farage gaining a real foothold. Cameron's claim to have made some brilliant deal with EU leaders was pathetic bullshit, although people have very short memories.

I am always concerned about someone like May doing damage to their own party. Cleggy showed the way without trying especially hard. I have no liking for our present government and I also have strong feelings about all the things you mentioned. I also worry about some of the crazy things that Corbyn has suggested doing if he comes to power.

If you want to live in a decent country, you need a good balance in parliament and this is essential for democracy. If the Tories fall apart due to their incompetence over dealing with Brexit, it will have absolutely dire consequences.

First, it will open the gates at Downing St to Corbyn & Co. Second, it is probably going to lead to a new further right party forming. I do not particularly want to see Corbyn in office thanks all the same. But there is very substantial support for Labour in many parts of the country and within all the public services, where most of the staff are totally fucked off with the way things are being run.

I agreed that realistically, it might be difficult to get Theresa May out of the job, but I'm sure there are ways of doing it.

Unfortunately, there has been no government in the last 50 years that has been especially good and several that have been really terrible. Where we are heading now is anyone's guess and quite possibly, this country will start to resemble scenes from the film V- For Vendetta in another 5-10 years.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Do you suppose well north of 17 million people voted Leave because they wanted to stay in the Single Market, stay in the Customs Union and uphold the free movement of labour?

I think almost none of them could have explained the Single Market or Customs Union three years ago. They probably still can't today

But many knew they didn't like immigrants, and even more knew they wanted to kick Cameron in unmentionable places

As you are a thinking person, I hope you agree with FDR, and the ancient Greeks who said it 2,000 years before him

[Sir Spender]

For me the biggest tragedy of this whole mess, was that neither leader of the 2 main parties, would publicly recognise the almost identical split between Leave and Remain, within their own parties. Neither front bench showing the guts, leadership or statesman-like qualities needed to put their own party-political interests aside for this one-off, over-whelmingly important issue requiring a cross party solution.

I dont know where the PM is getting her advice from, but she is in the position she is now, through her own choices & faults. There is a subtle difference between single-mindedness, patience & determination on the one hand, and narrow-minded, dogmatic stubbornness on the other.

Delaying the meaningful vote for a month has wasted precious parliamentary time. The EU are playing their cards well and just as anyone could have expected. Sadly, our negotiating strategy seems to have been wrong from the very start. I don’t expect any meaningful EU concessions, at least not until the absolute 11th hour, to try to force our hand into a bad deal.

But calling a vote of no confidence by JC, was also probably a rather pointless waste of valuable time too surely, given that the DUP have been paid off, and nobody could expect Tories to vote against themselves, and so risking a General Election, after such a humiliating defeat on the Governments key Brexit deal. The time for that strategy may have been better if the PM`s Plan B, due shortly, had showed no attempt to listen or engage properly.

What would either main party campaign on anyway as both are so equally split?
Michael Gove`s speech may have been a very successful character assassination of Jeremy Corbyn, designed to whip up the Tories after such a catastrophic defeat, but hardly a glowing inducement to the opposition to cooperate now. Then again, it was JCs choice to call the vote, so maybe he got what he deserved? It seems churlish to put preconditions on talks now though.

What is quite worrying though is the level of appalling vitriol, spiteful opinion & near hatred thrown around quite casually on social media, which continues to divide this great country even further apart. Reasoned rationale debate seems to have given way to abusive shouting.

[judy84]

A bad week for Bercow,speaker in the HoC, his local party actively seeking his replacement, his chances of a peerage about as slim as him getting on the big coasters at Alton Towers.



Oh, congratulations on being named "European of the Week" by French media though, that really does say it all!


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/822355...s-replace-him/

[haroldeye]

A little man with much to be little about. I would no more give him a peerage than I would give my dog rabies.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Sir Spender

But calling a vote of no confidence by JC, was also probably a rather pointless waste of valuable time too surely

The problem with JC seems to be that although he has more integrity and consistency than almost any other UK politicians, and his political calls have nearly always been right (unlike most others), he's uninspiring from what I've seen of him, and he's not a leader

Yet it's said he's feared by conservatives, and often disliked by his own people. What is the reason for this?

[Greenman]

DONE IT! reached 20,000 posts! and they said it couldn't be done or would be done. so for now that's that milestone done and passed.