Any Linux users here?

[9876543210]

maxedout,

Originally Posted by maxedout

What these companies mean is that they only use .doc format - it doesn't matter what program was used to create it. Until fairly recently the only way to do that was to use ms word.

I don't really work much with companies as much as "industries" really. Let me explain. I do a lot of work with academics where I'll write something and need to submit it to a friend or others for review. Years ago we all had different word processors so it was easier to just print the thing out and mail it to them. But nowadays we all use Word so when a document is ready I just email them the .doc and they can have it in seconds.

The only real problem a while back was in formatting when ready for review. Nowadays we all have Word so things work just fine. A document shows up in my inbox in some other format it gets deleted. I just don't have the time to mess with the formatting. I'll read the document when its in the correct format.

That's no longer true. All the major FOSS office suites now recognise ms formats, microsoft finally gave up the struggle & stopped legally blocking use of their formats a while ago. LibreOffice Writer, for example, allows you to save as .doc, docx etc.

Don't know what FOSS is but I just know the stuff I receive is all in .doc format and I don't have to spend hours trying to figure out the formatting (which I won't do). So I figure these people are all using Word.

As I remember the problem isn't in "recognizing" the MS format, its in being able to reproduce the formatting in a document. We've been able to "Save As" for a long time as a .doc but if the program screws up the formatting then we have a big problem which most people won't deal with.

Looks like the problem there is the users wanting all the latest whistles & bells without realising that what looks good on their machine is probably not going to look as good on someone elses, e.g. something as basic as using a non-standard font can really mess up a document. The key is to keep things simple.

See above about formatting problems.

[winebeavis]

Originally Posted by maxedout

Looks like the problem there is the users wanting all the latest whistles & bells without realising that what looks good on their machine is probably not going to look as good on someone elses, e.g. something as basic as using a non-standard font can really mess up a document. The key is to keep things simple.

To use it in a professional environment, some of those bells and whistles are important. If we're trying to hash out 50 pages of an Agreed Decree with 2 other people in 2 other offices, and 3 people are making edits and changes to multiple drafts of the document and we're trying to get this in before a deadline, it's probably important that we're all on the same page. Keeping it simple in order to save a few pennies is great whenever I can get away with it. Sometimes some businesses aren't really able to keep it simple when dealing with others.

It's why it's pretty much the industry standard.

[9876543210]

winebeavis,

Originally Posted by winebeavis

If we're trying to hash out 50 pages of an Agreed Decree with 2 other people in 2 other offices, and 3 people are making edits and changes to multiple drafts of the document and we're trying to get this in before a deadline, it's probably important that we're all on the same page.

This is exactly why I used to love the old Lotus Word Pro app. It did this kind of stuff beautifully. Word couldn't even come close to Lotus' abilities.

Ahh well, MS won the Office wars years ago. It sucks but what can you do.

[maxedout]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

Don't know what FOSS is but I just know the stuff I receive is all in .doc format and I don't have to spend hours trying to figure out the formatting (which I won't do). So I figure these people are all using Word.

As I remember the problem isn't in "recognizing" the MS format, its in being able to reproduce the formatting in a document. We've been able to "Save As" for a long time as a .doc but if the program screws up the formatting then we have a big problem which most people won't deal with.

FOSS = Free/Open Source Software - a sort of catch-all name.

As for messing up the formatting, that can happen between different versions of word. I usually send a pdf version as well as a doc version in case of any problems.

Originally Posted by winebeavis

To use it in a professional environment, some of those bells and whistles are important. If we're trying to hash out 50 pages of an Agreed Decree with 2 other people in 2 other offices, and 3 people are making edits and changes to multiple drafts of the document and we're trying to get this in before a deadline, it's probably important that we're all on the same page. Keeping it simple in order to save a few pennies is great whenever I can get away with it. Sometimes some businesses aren't really able to keep it simple when dealing with others.

Fair enough, but how much of the fancy stuff is insisted upon by some manager who can barely switch on a PC but wants everything to "look cool"?

Originally Posted by winebeavis

... It's why it's pretty much the industry standard.

So nothing to do with the fact that most PCs come with windoze & office pre-installed ?

Anyway - let's keep this discussion as brief as possible, we're getting a bit off the original topic.

[winebeavis]

Originally Posted by maxedout

Fair enough, but how much of the fancy stuff is insisted upon by some manager who can barely switch on a PC but wants everything to "look cool"?

None. Ever try uploading a proposed order on the Court's ECF system using odt?
Ever try handing your jury charge and questions to a judge on a flash drive to make minor corrections and find out he can't open it?

There's nothing wrong with OpenOffice for internal stuff. I'd happily use it if I didn't have to conform to others and it worked well with others. When the day comes that something open source does all it needs to do, I'm on board.

As previously mentioned, WordPerfect was long the standard in some areas, like legal and academia. It was great for footnotes, reveal codes, macros, etc. Not some manager who wanted shit to look cool. It was a really good product for forever, but selling it to Corel was probably a mistake when Corel stopped supporting the versions previous to WP 7.

Anyway, I hate windows. Things have worked so, so much better since I dumped them 5-6 years ago. The only time I have trouble with my any of my macs is when I'm running windows on it.

[maxedout]

Originally Posted by winebeavis

... Ever try uploading a proposed order on the Court's ECF system using odt?
Ever try handing your jury charge and questions to a judge on a flash drive to make minor corrections and find out he can't open it?

There's nothing wrong with OpenOffice for internal stuff. I'd happily use it if I didn't have to conform to others and it worked well with others. When the day comes that something open source does all it needs to do, I'm on board.

I was speaking generally - obviously it doesn't apply to every occasion. My point was that it's perfectly possible to create doc formats using open-source programs as long as you keep it simple. I've never really seen the point of embedding macros in a document to be sent, 99% of the time the recipient doesn't need them enabled & just wants a file they can open.

Originally Posted by winebeavis

Anyway, I hate windows. Things have worked so, so much better since I dumped them 5-6 years ago. The only time I have trouble with my any of my macs is when I'm running windows on it.

I can't comment on macs as I've never used one. The only thing I hate about them and microsoft is their business practices - overpriced & over restrictive. As far as I'm concerned, if a file/program is on my computer, I own it, so long as I don't infringe the law I should be free to do whatever I want with it (copy it, back it up, install on as many machines as I own etc) without having to pay extra.

[monogroover]

Yes, I've been a Linux user since 2000. I'm a Unix system engineer / administrator by profession so it's a natural choice for me and I manage a number of Linux servers in my job.

I've used a few different flavours and gave Mint a try recently. Quite nice but I've returned to Ubuntu this last year or so (Xubuntu in my case. Not impressed with developments in Gnome in recent years so now use the XFCE desktop).

[monogroover]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

Don't know what FOSS is but I just know the stuff I receive is all in .doc format and I don't have to spend hours trying to figure out the formatting (which I won't do). So I figure these people are all using Word.

They aren't, necessarily.

[9876543210]

monogroover,

Originally Posted by monogroover

They aren't, necessarily.

Well, please explain.

Look, I'm no friend of MS. Over the years they've pulled enough crap to make me not want to use any of their software. If I didn't have to use Word I wouldn't. In fact, I'm still using a 2002 version and hoping I'll never have to buy another.

I'd be happy to use OpenOffice and Linux tomorrow if everybody else in the academic and publishing communities would change also. But, right now, I just don't hear of anyone else changing. Maybe in the future but not at the moment.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

In fact, I'm still using a 2002 version and hoping I'll never have to buy another

How does it work with updates these days?

I still have an Office97 CD and used it without problems until about 2005. Then people started sending me documents that it couldn't read - every time they add a feature, that's one more thing the old packages can't handle. It froze my system several times

I didn't want to pay for a new suite, or even just for Word, so I got the OpenOffice stuff. It's worked well so far