Alternate Universe / Reality

[Sir Honkers]

Harry Turtledove's alternative version of the American Civil War and all that later springs from that.

[vo1v0d]

Since the term "post-truth" came into existence alternative reality is something we have to contend with.

[ShutUpLutz!]

Originally Posted by SwedishEroticaFan

I've always been a big fan of the "alternate universe/reality" genre. I was just interested in your thoughts on this particular brand. Books, TV, etc.

Just to get the ball rolling:

"Fatherland" - film w/ Rutgar Hauer

Feel free to weigh in with your discussions.

The book is much, much better.

[ShutUpLutz!]

Originally Posted by haldane4

I read four books in his World War series before abandoning it in disgust when I discovered he was going to string it out for another 3000 pages. Besides, the idea of aliens suddenly appearing during WW2, and Allies and Axis joining forces against them, is only worthy of novelty value - it's the kind of book you'd read only to find out what Hitler might have thought of aliens. I don't remember what he thought, so it can't have made much of an impression.

Christ. I remember staring one of his books and getting kind of interested, but he kept diverting away and then suddenly there were lizard people aliens and I was out. Then he started the alternate Civil War series and connected that with all his other stuff and just NO.

[ShutUpLutz!]

Originally Posted by electile disfunction

You had some interesting ideas in this post, S.E.F. (I could add examples to support them and any detractions would only be "quibbles".) I would like your thoughts about how I witnessed the "death of Flower Power".

I was very young at the time but I think that Chucky might be granted too much influence here given other possibilities that I saw. It seemed to me that much of the "peace" and "free love" movements were made of individuals (and their families) who were in the socio-economic classes between the upper Lower-Class and the lower Upper-Class--essentially those who did not have enough affluence to avoid being drafted into the U.S. armed forces to fight in Viet Nam, but were high enough in aspiration to not want to fight.

In the U.S.A., if one could go to college or be exempt from the draft by some other means then likely one did so. In Canada, the U.K., and other "distant" societies, it seemed that "peace and free love" was mostly an opportunity for teenagers to act "older" than they actually were because most adults were busy living "real lives".

However, as soon as Viet Nam was over I noticed that all the peace marches, war demonstrations, "free" love, and other "groovy" stuff disappeared almost as fast as I could blink! Only the very small groups of die-hards remained. Within a few years, peace and universal brotherhood was another NIMBY (generally desired but "not in my back yard" if someone has to take a stand).

The "Me Decade" had taken over with vengence. I still get spasms when I see bell-bottom pants!

What do you think?

e.d.

Manson didn't kill off the Flower Power/Hippie movement that actually withered away of it's own accord, though stuff like Altamont didn't help, especially Keith Richards comments.

What Manson did manage to do and which was mentioned in Mad Men was kill off hitchhiking in California. Like full stop.

I noticed that Watchmen was mentioned in a post a few pages and years ago. Interestingly or perhaps not, Alan Moore had originally pitched DC Comics the idea with the proposed title, "Twilight of the Gods," and he was going to use Batman/Superman, but DC was in the midst of it's 50th anniversary and their huge Crisis On Infinite Earths event which had repercussions for Batman and Superman, so DC nixed using them. Moore then came back with the same story this time using the Charlton Comics characters that DC had recently acquired, Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, The Peacemaker, Nightshade and Blue Beetle. But DC also planned to use them in Crisis on Infinite earths and in other titles so they were nixed. Moore came back again with the now famous Ozymandias, Night Owl, Rorschach and others.

The Final Countdown is not only a Top 40 hit by the Swedish metal band Europe but also a movie from 1980 starring Martin Sheen, Kirk Douglas, Catherine Ross and Charles Durning about the US nuclear powered air craft carrier Enterprise which goes through a time warp and ends up back in 1941 on the eve of the attack on Pearl Harbor. This movie literally was on TBS at least twice a week back in the mid-late 1980's.

The tv show Friends did a couple of alternate universe episodes.

Star Trek has also done several episodes involving alternate universes, most famous probably being, "Mirror, Mirror, where Spock has a Van Dyke style beard goin' on. There is also a good STTNG novel called DarK Mirror which lays out more of the history of the Evil Federation.

DC Comics had well it wasn't really a series, more a bunch of special issues under their Elseworlds imprint.

Marvel comics had their "What If?" and "What if Vol.2" series of comics which told alternate histories of pivotal events and storylines in Marvel Comics history.

[CARLTON BROWN]

Haven't been on this thread for several years, but thought I'd venture back for a look. I think my last comments were about Fringe. This was a really good show for about three seasons, then went to crap. Never mind. I think they just ran out of ideas as is often the case.

What I'd currently recommend as very good, is The Man In The High Castle. This is a bit like Fatherland but is now moving more into the early Fringe and general sci-fi area. Well written, well produced and it has some very good historical input.

Also, the current Star Trek. This displaces things slightly into an alternative Federation with slightly different technology and unfamiliar values. I wasn't sure about what was going on to start with, but its been pretty good and it a bit more gritty than past Trek shows.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by vo1v0d

Since the term "post-truth" came into existence alternative reality is something we have to contend with.

yeah, it kinda took the fun out of it. There was a story, I think Ursula Leguin, which wasn't so much an alternate reality story as a "continuously deforming reality" story-- I think it was "The Lathe of Heaven"; very disconcerting, and more than a little like how we live now.

Originally Posted by CARLTON BROWN

Haven't been on this thread for several years, but thought I'd venture back for a look. I think my last comments were about Fringe. This was a really good show for about three seasons, then went to crap. Never mind. I think they just ran out of ideas as is often the case.

Agree, %100. Fringe at its best was fantastic, a long string of hints and Easter Eggs-- the standalone episode "White Tulip" (S02 E18) ranks as some of the best science fiction on television, one of the great time travel stories ever, in just 50 minutes

Originally Posted by CARLTON BROWN

What I'd currently recommend as very good, is The Man In The High Castle. This is a bit like Fatherland but is now moving more into the early Fringe and general sci-fi area. Well written, well produced and it has some very good historical input.

Ugh . .. gotta bone to pick with you there. This series _looks_ fantastic, the "world building" for Nazi New York and Japanese occupied San Francisco is genius . . . but dear god, the people say some stupid shit, terrible writing.

Rufus Sewell is a great actor, but between Alexa Davalos and Luke Kleintank . . . which of the two of them is more wooden? Impossible to say . . .

As great as this looks, plot wise its a not great soap opera.

* * * *

One of my favorite alternate universe books was Philip Jose Farmer's "Riverworld" series-- its a puzzle to me that that has never been made into a movie.

[wolf902]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

One of my favorite alternate universe books was Philip Jose Farmer's "Riverworld" series-- its a puzzle to me that that has never been made into a movie.

Yeah it has

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310952/

Not a great attempt, but IMO watchable

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by wolf902

Yeah it has

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310952/

Not a great attempt, but IMO watchable

Didn't know that.

There's a well done French comic book series, in which the French Revolution hasn't happened, its an Old Regime with modern technology . . . I am going nuts because I can't remember the name.

The French do tons of Alternate [French] history, usually the Revolution didn't happen or Napoleon won, but they get more inventive-- alternate history seems very popular (part of it may be that France has a very good history curriculum in their high schools, so people know things like Roman history quite well)

Here's a cover from "JourJ", a comic entirely devoted to different alternate histories-- in this one, its 1795, the King is dead, but Marie Antoinette has escaped and the Allied armies have rallied to her and are attacking the Revolutionaries



and another one, where Cleopatra and Mark Antony aren't defeated, and march on Rome

[GailFan]

Originally Posted by wolf902

Yeah it has

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310952/

Not a great attempt, but IMO watchable

Uhg, I found it terrible. It was shot here and I actually missed out on working on it. Went into the library to study, turned my phone off, came out three hours later and there was a voice message asking if I wanted to do continuity.

IIRC, it really had nothing to do with the books. They created a new "hero" (and American astronaut), and ditched all of the plot. And, of course, they don't start off nude.

Slightly off-topic, but if anyone has read PJF and found that he seems to be making veiled references to Scientology cosmology? The Riverworld books seems to draw upon it, with the spirits of the dead being collected and reincarnated through the machines. He also wrote a little known novel called Timestop! which seemed to parody Scientology and Hubbard.