Vegan Diet V Carnivore Diet

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

An allied question for xyzde689 -in terms of establishing consistency of belief positions vis a vis a 'vegan' position: do you wear leather shoes? would you be happy wearing clothes made of wool or silk?

When I buy clothes or shoes, I only buy cotton and polyester or gore-tex clothes.
I've a leather jacket that my oncle offered to me before I've decided to let as much as possible the animals in peace.
I could give it, but I'd not throw it. That would be a shame...

I never bought wool. That's not sweet enough. But if the sheep is treated well, why this kind of wool would be unfair?

As I wrote, I'm not like the most extreme vegans. I don't believe in a world with humans who would not kill animals. I don't think that the Eskimos are paranoiac. They are real hunters and they don't have seeds to eat.

But in several areas on this planet, I think (like more and more people) that we actually treat very badly animals. They are considered like objects.
In 2017, with all our knowledges and improvement about nutrition, we can't defend the actual form of animal exploitation, apart if we are sadist or psychopath.

I've spent all my life to carefully look at them. They are clever, they have feelings and if you are nice with them they trust you and some species even try to communicate with you.

Look in India they still eat about 3 kg of meat per year per person (a little bit less than my European ancesters), in Switzerland 50 kg of meat per year, in France 70 to 80 kg.... in the USA in some areas .... 120 kg...

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by footstep

Vegetables are alive too...
A tree is alive.

True. And I don't think that we have to treat them badly.

By the way do not forget that's because of meat eaters and greedy people that a lot of rain forests mainly are disappearing on this planet.

In the USA, there are some cattles in which they don't feed anymore cows with grass, but with soja.
Soja that are produced on old rain forests areas.

Last word... Vegetables don't get nervous system. Do they have a consciousness ? Difficult to say.

Several vegans only eat seeds and fruits, that's the vegetable part that get the most proteins. It's like if you eat sperms or ovums.

I speak not only for you, but for all the readers.

Honestly if you really want the best for your children and little children, inform yourselves and if you don't want at all to stop to eat meat, reduce your quantity. (Some people try to eat only one time per week meat.)

And if you really love animals, don't only think about the welfare of your cat or dog, think about the welfare of the pigs who live in total artificial and unfair conditions.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

Yes I would
On one condition

When a Shark looks at a Seal one day and says to itself, ya know what I ain't gonna eat that Seal, think I'll try this sea weed instead ..... Then I'll do the same

Evolution, God, whichever you chose to believe in didn't give us carnivorous teeth for a joke

Omnivorous with a more vegetarian tendency, than carnivorous tendency....

Our ancesters didn't eat that much meat. Because it was difficult to hunt and kill an animal.
They probably ate more vegetables and fruits than they ate animals.
That make us omnivorous and not carnivorous.

We also have a typical digestive system of an omnivore

[candela]

For me this is a question about ethics and science. What you can and cannot do with living cells is an ethical line and this line is mainly defined by science. This is not limited to eating meat, but also involves things like abortion, termination of life, drug testing, cosmetic testing, etc. As science get's more advanced, the ethical line will move. And obviously it's moving to better treatment of animals and I'm sure in the end it will be not eating meat at all (or eating artificial meat).

And you can be sure that if everyone had to slaughter their own cute chicken/rabbit/pig/etc. the eating of meat would severely decline. Many people will not be willing to kill an animal unless they were starving.

I currently eat meat but I could basically stop at any point. I did stop almost completely for several years when I was living in a big city and stores would have a large selection of alternatives.

What I really don't understand is this addiction of many people to eat meat. Even suggesting to lower their consumption makes them angry as if it's some god given right to eat meat.

Btw, this is an interesting conversation between Peter Singer and Richard Dawkins on the subject

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by cicciobuki

Allow me to turn the topic's question around: would you eat lab-made meat?
(so real meat but no animal needed to suffer)

Honestly... after almost 20 years, I don't need.
I really really like the vegetal ingredients I eat.
Really.

But if people who really love to eat meat would eat this kind of lab-made meat...
Why not? I don't think that this piece of meat thinks, have feelings...

Maybe that would waste a lot of energy...
That's something to study.

[footstep]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

True. And I don't think that we have to treat them badly.

By the way do not forget that's because of meat eaters and greedy people that a lot of rain forests mainly are disappearing on this planet.

In the USA, there are some cattles in which they don't feed anymore cows with grass, but with soja.
Soja that are produced on old rain forests areas.

Last word... Vegetables don't get nervous system. Do they have a consciousness ? Difficult to say.

Several vegans only eat seeds and fruits, that's the vegetable part that get the most proteins. It's like if you eat sperms or ovums.

I speak not only for you, but for all the readers.

Honestly if you really want the best for your children and little children, inform yourselves and if you don't want at all to stop to eat meat, reduce your quantity. (Some people try to eat only one time per week meat.)

And if you really love animals, don't only think about the welfare of your cat or dog, think about the welfare of the pigs who live in total artificial and unfair conditions.

Those thoughts are quite respectable.
However, men ate animals for millions years, you know , when modern consummation society was not.
Imagine, Neanderthal man ask himself: no! I am a vegan. No, he wants to survive.

[rosestone]

I'm a vegetarian and I suppose a lazy vegan (I do eat eggs and drink milk, although not very often), my attitude towards this is the same as my attitude towards anything: just to try and do as little harm as possible while I inhabit this planet.

There is something called Quorn which is manufactured in Britain and is 'fake meat', and tastes great, and is high in protein. I think the only other countries that sell it are Germany and the USA.

The problem with vegans is that they are invariably (present company accepted) unbearably smug and condescending.

[Mal Hombre]

Of course Quorn is made from fungi and fungi are closer to animals than they are to plants..

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by rosestone

I'm a vegetarian and I suppose a lazy vegan (I do eat eggs and drink milk, although not very often), my attitude towards this is the same as my attitude towards anything: just to try and do as little harm as possible while I inhabit this planet.

There is something called Quorn which is manufactured in Britain and is 'fake meat', and tastes great, and is high in protein. I think the only other countries that sell it are Germany and the USA.

I already bought and ate Quorn. In fact that were the first look-like meat that I bought in the supermarket... and some products taste very good and others are disgusting.
The first time I ate Quorn, it was in Bolognese spaghetti made by the wife of a friend... It was delicious.

Originally Posted by rosestone

The problem with vegans is that they are invariably (present company accepted) unbearably smug and condescending.

Come on!!!! You put all the vegans on the same shelf.

I'm not a fanatical vegan, because I don't believe that you can eat a fruit or a vegetable without killing an insect or a mushroom.
Fanatical vegans often are people who are townsmen. They don't know what is nature.

But I met fanatical vegans and some of them are nothing else as very sensible people. And their attitude looks sometimes very arrogant, because they are disgusted by the reactionary or lethargic attitude of too many meat eaters.

And I understand them.
Damned. I remember on a translated BBC TV report, when a journalist wanted to hear from a pedophile that he had to regret his horrible sexual acts.
And the pedophile was smiling and let the journalist becoming more and more irritate by the way he was asking his questions. At the end the pedophile quietly answered: "You believe that I'm not normal, but in my point of view, my pulsions are totally normal."

BOOOMMM. End of the documentary.


That's the same for the sensible vegans. They are irritated like the journalist of the BBC.
They think that a little baby pig has to live free in the forest until he will die under the teeth of a wolf.
They don't want that "clever humans" behave with a low ethics when they are able to write laws, rules to improve the quality of life of the rest of the human mankind.

For sure, you will speak to some "pseudo-arrogant students in philosophy", who treat everybody like primitives, but arrogant people are everywhere.

But not ALL the vegans are self-sufficient.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by footstep

Those thoughts are quite respectable.
However, men ate animals for millions years, you know , when modern consummation society was not.
Imagine, Neanderthal man ask himself: no! I am a vegan. No, he wants to survive.

Sadly Neanderthal Man didn't survive