Possible Search Failure?

Juju62 · February 3rd, 2014, 08:50 PM

I am asking the following because I am uncertain as to how the outcome of the situation came about. I created a thread (Classic Celebrities - Kim Alexis) because I did a search and only found a thread for a different Kim Alexis. However, today I find that my post was tacked onto what appears to be an existing Kim Alexis thread in Classic Celebrities.

Why did my search not bring up this thread?
Were older replies from another thread moved to the one I created?
Did I make a mistake somewhere?

If the error is on my part, what did I do, and how can I make sure it doesn't happen again?

**MrInBetween** · February 3rd, 2014, 09:13 PM

If I search now for Kim Alexis, from the drop-down box on the bar at the top of this screen, selecting 'show threads', I get 86 results. If I instead select 'advanced search', and then repeat the experiment, still selecting 'show threads', I get 500. It had never occurred to me that the two produced different results.

Doesn't answer your question, sorry - but how exactly did you do your search?

[EDIT]
I think one search is doing OR, the other AND - a very useful discovery.

[EDIT AGAIN]
Yes it is. The drop-down box is searching AND, the Advanced Search is searching OR. Try it yourself with my two threads in the Test Forum

Sorry Juju62, I know this still isn't answering your question.

Juju62 · February 4th, 2014, 02:20 PM

I think they both use AND, as I get the same results when searching for just one or both words in both the advanced and drop down search. Also, in regards to the particular search I did, two "Kim Alexis" come up now, making me think either I just didn't see the one I was searching for, or it had older posts added to it.

I probably don't have enough administrative rights to check (I don't have any!) but is it possible to check the history of changes to a particular thread?

**40plus** · February 4th, 2014, 02:51 PM

The search function is a law unto itself I'm afraid.

The default appears to be AND, regardless of what syntax you use. However, if you search in thread titles and get a nil return, then switch to search in posts, the logic changes to OR.

I suspect the reason for AND being the default is because it has to be if short and/or common words are excluded from search terms (which they have to be unless you have a CRAY) so we are stuck with it.

The best solution I can suggest, although not perfect, is to search in posts, restrict the search to a specific subforum, and return results as posts (sorted by relevancy or title). If you hit the max 500 returns, switch returns to titles.

If, like me, you rely on mobile broadband, this is the most efficient method I have found so far, although I am still looking!

On the plus side, at least vB doesn't return pictures in the results. That would be me stuffed.

Regards

40+

**retroanalyst** · February 4th, 2014, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40plus

The best solution I can suggest, although not perfect, is to search in posts, restrict the search to a specific subforum, and return results as posts (sorted by relevancy or title). If you hit the max 500 returns, switch returns to titles.

This very much depends on what you are looking for and how many hits there are. In Juju62's situation, I would recommend to search for titles only and display the results as threads. It is difficult to overlook Kim Alexis' thread among the five hits you get then.

**MrInBetween** · February 4th, 2014, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juju62

I think they both use AND, as I get the same results when searching for just one or both words in both the advanced and drop down search. Also, in regards to the particular search I did, two "Kim Alexis" come up now, making me think either I just didn't see the one I was searching for, or it had older posts added to it.

They can't both be using AND, as the Advanced one explicitly says it's using OR at the top of the results page. I'm puzzled how you always get the same number, unless that number is 500, because that's the highest number of results the search engine can ever return. Even so, I don't think that can be right.

But I'm finding researching how the search engine works difficult because I notice that some of the searches I'm getting say 'generated x minutes ago' on them, which means it's reusing a search I've already made, which might not be helpful if the data has changed meanwhile, or if the two searches aren't really equivalent - something like that might have been happening to you.

**buttsie** · February 4th, 2014, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juju62

I am asking the following because I am uncertain as to how the outcome of the situation came about. I created a thread (Classic Celebrities - Kim Alexis) because I did a search and only found a thread for a different Kim Alexis. However, today I find that my post was tacked onto what appears to be an existing Kim Alexis thread in Classic Celebrities.

Why did my search not bring up this thread?
Were older replies from another thread moved to the one I created?
Did I make a mistake somewhere?

If the error is on my part, what did I do, and how can I make sure it doesn't happen again?

Search is pretty useless

Even advanced search cant get away from the main vbulletin search engine limitation

The returns are by thread activity - date order
- which doesnt always lead to the most relevant returns

Your thread most likely was sitting down on page 25 because it hadnt been added to for years...

Reading the search tutorial page is useful place to start...
given lots of search characters dont work here

What we're being asked to do is search smaller specifc areas
not the entire forum at once every time we do a search.

As 40plus mentions - advanced search / titles only via the most likely sub forum is the only way to get to the most relevant threads quickly - at least in theory though there are threads because of title changes after being set-up that dont show up at all.

Hos explains many of the limitations here
http://vintage-erotica-forum.com/sho...02&postcount=7

Personally i dont go near any extra characters like + "" in trying to make search returns smaller
or more relevant especially given the majority of material outside of a models thread is rarely labelled so cant be found by the search engine

**burpman** · February 13th, 2014, 06:27 AM

If your particular forum is publicly available you can circumvent all the search foolishness by enclosing the search term in quotes when googling and adding the site: qualifier followed by the VEF URL. This will return exact results. Can't do anything for hidden forums though.

**40plus** · February 13th, 2014, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burpman

If your particular forum is publicly available you can circumvent all the search foolishness by enclosing the search term in quotes when googling and adding the site: qualifier followed by the VEF URL. This will return exact results. Can't do anything for hidden forums though.

True, but that doesn't work for images, despite what the info boxes on google imply. Google will also pick up on embedded text or code and will return extra results in case you've made a mistake (e.g. a search for Becky will also return Rebecca).

Regards
40+

nobadguy · February 18th, 2014, 03:19 PM

This really has to be fixed.
I also tried a search, this time for "Jessica Robbin"
Using the drop down I searched for "Jessica Robbin" and got this(2 Results):
Search: Keyword(s): Jessica, Robbin

Using Advanced menu I searched for "Jessica Robbin" and got this(176 Results):
Search: Keyword(s): Jessica OR Robbin

Using Advanced menu I searched for "Jessica AND Robbin" and got this(176 Results):
Search: Keyword(s): Jessica OR Robbin

That I not even can manually override the OR search is a real hassle and makes searching for the exact name almost impossible unless you let JavaScript run all th time to get to the drop down menu but even if that menu won't give you any options for searching.

Please try to fix that, forum without a proper functioning search is awful.

February 3rd, 2014, 08:50 PM	#1
Juju62 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 221 Thanks: 1,006 Thanked 6,878 Times in 208 Posts	Possible Search Failure? I am asking the following because I am uncertain as to how the outcome of the situation came about. I created a thread (Classic Celebrities - Kim Alexis) because I did a search and only found a thread for a different Kim Alexis. However, today I find that my post was tacked onto what appears to be an existing Kim Alexis thread in Classic Celebrities. Why did my search not bring up this thread? Were older replies from another thread moved to the one I created? Did I make a mistake somewhere? If the error is on my part, what did I do, and how can I make sure it doesn't happen again?

February 3rd, 2014, 09:13 PM	#2
MrInBetween R.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Gone But Not Forgotten Posts: 3,934 Thanks: 51,364 Thanked 48,454 Times in 3,898 Posts	If I search now for Kim Alexis, from the drop-down box on the bar at the top of this screen, selecting 'show threads', I get 86 results. If I instead select 'advanced search', and then repeat the experiment, still selecting 'show threads', I get 500. It had never occurred to me that the two produced different results. Doesn't answer your question, sorry - but how exactly did you do your search? [EDIT] I think one search is doing OR, the other AND - a very useful discovery. [EDIT AGAIN] Yes it is. The drop-down box is searching AND, the Advanced Search is searching OR. Try it yourself with my two threads in the Test Forum Sorry Juju62, I know this still isn't answering your question. __________________ I'm sorry Gentlemen, that's all the lipstick around the nipple we have time for To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by MrInBetween; February 3rd, 2014 at 09:39 PM..

February 4th, 2014, 02:51 PM	#4
40plus Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Offshore Posts: 2,939 Thanks: 18,484 Thanked 35,205 Times in 2,851 Posts	The search function is a law unto itself I'm afraid. The default appears to be AND, regardless of what syntax you use. However, if you search in thread titles and get a nil return, then switch to search in posts, the logic changes to OR. I suspect the reason for AND being the default is because it has to be if short and/or common words are excluded from search terms (which they have to be unless you have a CRAY) so we are stuck with it. The best solution I can suggest, although not perfect, is to search in posts, restrict the search to a specific subforum, and return results as posts (sorted by relevancy or title). If you hit the max 500 returns, switch returns to titles. If, like me, you rely on mobile broadband, this is the most efficient method I have found so far, although I am still looking! On the plus side, at least vB doesn't return pictures in the results. That would be me stuffed. Regards 40+ __________________ Touchy, feely.............with Cherry Healey (once she's got rid of that god-awful nose ring).

February 13th, 2014, 06:27 AM	#8
burpman Former Staff Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Burren, Eireann Posts: 4,364 Thanks: 23,645 Thanked 59,851 Times in 4,188 Posts	google site: qualifier If your particular forum is publicly available you can circumvent all the search foolishness by enclosing the search term in quotes when googling and adding the site: qualifier followed by the VEF URL. This will return exact results. Can't do anything for hidden forums though.

February 4th, 2014, 02:20 PM	#3
Juju62 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 221 Thanks: 1,006 Thanked 6,878 Times in 208 Posts	I think they both use AND, as I get the same results when searching for just one or both words in both the advanced and drop down search. Also, in regards to the particular search I did, two "Kim Alexis" come up now, making me think either I just didn't see the one I was searching for, or it had older posts added to it. I probably don't have enough administrative rights to check (I don't have any!) but is it possible to check the history of changes to a particular thread?

February 18th, 2014, 03:19 PM	#10
nobadguy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 286 Thanks: 11,825 Thanked 1,535 Times in 222 Posts	This really has to be fixed. I also tried a search, this time for "Jessica Robbin" Using the drop down I searched for "Jessica Robbin" and got this(2 Results): Search: Keyword(s): Jessica, Robbin Using Advanced menu I searched for "Jessica Robbin" and got this(176 Results): Search: Keyword(s): Jessica OR Robbin Using Advanced menu I searched for "Jessica AND Robbin" and got this(176 Results): Search: Keyword(s): Jessica OR Robbin That I not even can manually override the OR search is a real hassle and makes searching for the exact name almost impossible unless you let JavaScript run all th time to get to the drop down menu but even if that menu won't give you any options for searching. Please try to fix that, forum without a proper functioning search is awful.