Militant Islamists

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by luca3434

If Islam is a peaceful religion, why then does Sharia Law prescribe such brutal punishments to its people, or display such intolerance and agression to minorities such as homosexuals or indeed other alternative religions in a some muslim countries? I would love a reasoned and balanced answer from anyone who can help me understand this. Thanks

I would a actually love a Muslim to reply to that as no matter how different many of us may feel here with regards to the tones of our arguments I think most of us will accept there is a world of difference between what Islam claims it represents and what actually happens in countries where Islam is the main religion.

[vannax]

Canadian airport employees ID’d as ISIS supporters:

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/28...92467b47756b91

All Amish, I expect.

[vannax]

Islamic State beheads two for 'sorcery' in Egypt's Sinai

https://www.yahoo.com/news/islamic-s...192801128.html

People are still punished for sorcery all over the Islamic world, and murderers are let off because "djinn did it."

[diamelsx]

Originally Posted by vannax

Islamic State beheads two for 'sorcery' in Egypt's Sinai

https://www.yahoo.com/news/islamic-s...192801128.html

People are still punished for sorcery all over the Islamic world, and murderers are let off because "djinn did it."

Yeah, here is a case of 100 people going on trial in New Guinea for sorcery killings. You would think stuff like this went out with the Puritans but just goes to show you this world is a big place.

Question:Why do we seem to view Muslims as some monolithic entity. We seem to look at other religions as individuals,especially if they done something unbecoming. Why can't Muslims be afforded the same treatment?

[flake56]

they are still alive and well and well funded here in the USA. they helped give us the orange fascist we have for short term president. as well as the confederate states still in active civil war. hard to separate religion from politics here.

[ultimatewarlord]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

Yeah, here is a case of 100 people going on trial in New Guinea for sorcery killings. You would think stuff like this went out with the Puritans but just goes to show you this world is a big place.

Question:Why do we seem to view Muslims as some monolithic entity. We seem to look at other religions as individuals,especially if they done something unbecoming. Why can't Muslims be afforded the same treatment?

Because my country is being flooded with Muslims trying to subvert my culture to islam, aided by authorities lacking backbone. Guineans? Not so much!

[Pinkpapercut]

Originally Posted by diamelsx

Making false claims against a religion only serves to make the religion seem more honorable when the truth is understood. So when you bring up the FGM, honour killings, and acid acid attacks as done in the name of Islam when actually those are all cultural practices in specific regions and have no basis in religious doctrine it just shows your poor understanding of the religion and the lack of qualification to speak on it...

Female Genital Mutilation is part of Islam. Muhammad said it was favourable to Allah, that is recorded in the Ahadith.

Because of that, Female Genital Mutilation is imposed on girls to draw Allah's favour. Though not halal, ie not mandatory, it always has been an orthodox and scripturally-supported Muslim practice.

The small non-Muslim populations who sometimes practice it are overwhelmingly populations under long-term Muslim subjugation.

Islamic scripture doesn't specifically enjoin men or families who have been shamed by a woman to throw acid in her face nor does it enjoin them to kill her for bringing shame on them but there are so many inhumane and degrading injunctions against women in the Koran and the Ahadith, so much insisting on their status as mere cattle, their shameful bodies and their evil nature that shame-killings and acid attacks are entirely consistent with the spirit of Islam if not the literal letter of the scripture.

It's worth noting that the European countries where 'Shame' killings have been carried out in the absence of Islam are all countries that have been previously under Muslim occupation at some point: Sicly, Southern Italy, Southern Spain, Greece, Albania.

diamelsx, you write about Vannax: "when you bring up the FGM, honour killings, and acid acid attacks as done in the name of Islam when actually those are all cultural practices in specific regions and have no basis in religious doctrine it just shows your poor understanding of the religion and the lack of qualification to speak on it"

In light of what I've written in this post, all of which I could, if I had time, back up with citations from the Koran, the Sahih Bukhari Ahadith, the Sirat and a respected Sharia Vade Mecum, I suggest it's you who have "a poor understanding of the religion and the lack of qualification to speak of it" because all I've read from you about Islam so far has been platitudinous liberal received opinion.

[Pinkpapercut]

Originally Posted by luca3434

If Islam is a peaceful religion, why then does Sharia Law prescribe such brutal punishments to its people, or display such intolerance and agression to minorities such as homosexuals or indeed other alternative religions in a some muslim countries? I would love a reasoned and balanced answer from anyone who can help me understand this. Thanks

The simple answer is that Islam is not a peaceful religion. Islam has always had Jihad as part of its toolbox. Jihad means Sacred War to impose Islam and the Sharia whatever some Muslims tell you otherwise.

Islam does not mean Peace as some Muslims claim, Salam means Peace, Islam means Submission or Surrender to a stronger force as in War. It isn't Peace in our more general sense of an absence of conflict, a state of quietness and amity. The Peace that Muslims talk about refers to the state of Submission to the Will of Allah and the Strictures of the Sharia without dissension/strife.

To achieve that state the Koran (ie Allah ie Muhammad or the early Caliphs who probably retrospectively configured the persona of Muhammad to justify Arab expansion) insists that unprovoked warfare, terrorisation of non-Muslims, enslavement, enslavement and massacre will be necessary.

In order to achieve this when Muslims are in a minority or are in a strategically compromised position, The Koran, the Hadiths and thence Sharia permit Muslims several modes of Sacred Deception, briefly

• Taqiyya (Shia) or Muda’rat (Sunni): tactical deceit for the purposes of spreading Islam
• Kitman: deceit by omission
• Tawriya: deceit by ambiguity
• Taysir: deceit through facilitation (not having to observe all the tenets of Sharia)
• Darura: deceit through necessity (to engage in something “Haram” or forbidden)
• Muruna: the temporary suspension of Sharia in order that Muslim immigrants appear 'moderate'

These are needed because whovever formulated the Koran and Hadiths knew that non-Muslims would be resistant to the real precepts and practices of Islam and would have to be deceived, coerced and subjugated into submission to Islam or massacred if they wouldn't.


Islam is a religion/political system radically without ethics, it is merely legalistic - follow these rules, don't question them, and your soul will be saved, break them and you will be damned in Eternity and what's more we will punish and kill you on Earth for breaking them.


Muslims are commanded to accept the Law of Allah without question because Allah and Allah's will are beyond human comprehension and Muslims must strive to bring as many unbelievers to Islam as possible by the Day of Judgement.



Allah has told them that many will resist what is good for them because it is unpleasant to them so to ensure the greatest number of Muslims, ie souls saved on Judgement Day, many unbelievers will have to be killed along the way.


The only way to escape Judgement Day is to die waging Jihad for Allah killing unbelievers. That buys instant entrance to Paradise.


Hence Muslims who die detonating a bomb belt are not commuting suicide, are not 'Suicide Bombers', but are Shahids, 'Witnesses' who die killing unbelievers as an act of witness to Allah and Muhammad.



When Muslims say 'suicide is forbidden by Allah' they are telling you the truth by their own lights but they also know that you don't realise that 'suicide' in Judeo-Chrisitian/Graeco-Roman-based civilisation doesn't mean the same thing that it does in Islam.



According to Islamic scripture all this has always been at the heart of Islam.


So, to reiterate, Islam is not a peaceful religion. The violence and oppression is integral to the religion and was so from the first Hijra when Muhammad and his first Muslims migrated from Mecca to Medina, took Medina over and used it as a base for warfare and banditry.



Violence is not something that is a deviation from peacefulness as it is in other, ethical, religions. It is at the heart of legalistic ethics-free Islam.

Originally Posted by diamelsx

Question:Why do we seem to view Muslims as some monolithic entity. We seem to look at other religions as individuals,especially if they done something unbecoming. Why can't Muslims be afforded the same treatment?

"Why can't Muslims be afforded the same treatment?" Because by their own Sacred laws and by historical evidence they don't afford that consideration to others except in very limited circumstances.





We have to view Muslims as a monolithic entity as a matter of safety for a number of reasons: their combination of religious violence with scared lying about that violence is one; there are others, a huge one being that Islam itself is essentially a monolith - the Muslim sects that exist view the other sects as Muslim so long as they don't violate the teachings of the Koran and Muhammad. The various sects, the main two being the Sunni and the Shia, mostly disagree on matters of correct succession of the early Caliphs (successors of Muhammad as leader of the Muslims). This is like disagreeing about the Wars of the Roses rather than disagreeing about the Trinity as in Christianity.



On Muhammad, Allah, Jihad and the imposition of Sharia they don't disagree at all.



The few Muslim sects who have tried to forswear violence, principally the Baha'i and the Ahmadiyya, are not viewed as Muslim by the mainstream Muslims because, within the logic of their beliefs, in order to modify their precepts they can't rely on the example of the vicious and violent Muhammad, they have instead to recognize a new Messenger of Allah and this immediately removes Muhammad's status as Last Messenger of Allah and Crown of the Prophets one of the ultimate heresies of Islam.


Futhermore, as I've said in an earlier post, It's a basic precept of Islam that Sharia is binding on all human beings, not just on Muslims and that historically the more committed Muslims have policed the Sharia with the lethal violence that the Sharia advocates, so that not just non-Muslims but less strict Muslims were forced to submit or die.


As their numbers increase in the West more and more Muslims are becoming bold and expressing their religious bigotry, their intolerance and their religious violence.


What we are seeing is Hijrah, Jihad by colonisation as happened to Medina in Arabia 1300 years ago when Muhammad used the kindliness of the Medinans against them and took their city over for the Muslims.


Feel free to gamble your family's future on the hope that what we're experiencing is a passing phase and Muslims will integrate in the West. All the signs are that more and more are increasingly confident that they can openly start imposing Islam on us by their usual coercion and violence.


Just remember that your tolerance toward them does not compel Muslims to be tolerant towards you in return.

[Pinkpapercut]

Apologies for the formatting of my posts immediately above, something - I have no idea what - is playing havoc with their layout.

[vannax]

Originally Posted by flake56

they are still alive and well and well funded here in the USA. they helped give us the orange fascist we have for short term president. as well as the confederate states still in active civil war. hard to separate religion from politics here.

It seems that you don't really know what "active civil war" actually means.
I should hasten to remind you that the body count due to the Westboro Baptists remains at ZERO.