Atheist, are you one??

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

Some people can and some people can't. I don't remember specifying that people have to be anything. But there is a unifying theme to both atheism and to faith. There may be a variety of reasons why people disbelieve, but the act of disbelief is a constant. It is a conscious act, assessing the world and drawing a conclusion; but no one can know that there is no God, any more than anyone can possibly know whether there is a God. If you could it either way, faith would become irrelevent. No one has to believe in gravity or in the oxidisation of metal; these things are proven

In this paragraph is the beginning of understanding why some of us call ourselves Agnostics, not Atheists.

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by darthwiggum2000

So in other words, you're moving the goal post from "scientifically verifiable" to "plausibly supportable."

"Plausibly supportable" is a step on the way to "scientifically verifiable".

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by rincewind209

Religion made a lot of sense 1000 years ago, kept everyone in line

[howerd]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

What will atheists accept as proof He does exist. It works both ways.

No it doesn't work both ways & this is why: Christianity or Islam or Hinduism etc. are all religions are making (conflicting) claims about reality: there is a god (& what you need to do to appease him or them or get reincarnated in a better form etc. etc. etc.) Atheism is simply a response to these claims & the response is 'I don't believe you.' Now if you think we should it's your job to give us a good verifiable reason why we should. Understand?

What will atheists accept as proof He does exist? Evidence which is independently verifiable. I don't care what it is as long as it's something which could be disproved if it were untrue. I don't believe you can do this. I believe all you can come up with are excuses why you can't. Well can you? We'll see...

[darthwiggum2000]

Originally Posted by howerd

Now can you provide a shred of verifiable evidence that some immaterial being exists?

LOL, I’m not sure how one would provide verifiable evidence for something that’s been pre-defined as “immaterial.” The very conditions of your question prevent an answer.

Why are you insisting on a scientific rationale for something that is intrinsically non-scientific?

[DTravel]

Originally Posted by darthwiggum2000

LOL, I’m not sure how one would provide verifiable evidence for something that’s been pre-defined as “immaterial.” The very conditions of your question prevent an answer.

Why are you insisting on a scientific rationale for something that is intrinsically non-scientific?

Why are you insisting that "faith" has to be a part of scientific rationale or the scientific process?

[rincewind209]

Faith in god is ridiculous. Why would any being capable of constructing the universe care if you believed in him. If believing in him was important it would be written in letters of fire a mile high at 100 yard intervals. But it's not. It's written by people. Just like all the other stories.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

What will atheists accept as proof He does exist. It works both ways.

Mmm, i'm sure an omnipotent, omniscient being can come up with something very convincing.

[Baranovich]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

What will atheists accept as proof He does exist. It works both ways.

Well, yes, of course.

However, what you said is a bit of a loaded statement, and I feel a bit entrapped by the tone of it.

The reason is this. You asked me, an Atheist, what proof I will accept that God exists. I will tell you. And I think I can speak for most Atheists who have this pretty well balanced in their heads.

Proof that God exists? Drum roll....

1. An actual, in-person appearance by the man himself. Coming down from the clouds as it's often so epically described in the Bible.

2. An actual, in-person appearance by Jesus Christ, an appearance as it is foretold in I think maybe Revelations, where the end times are talked about.

3. An actual meeting between souls who have moved on to the after-life, and have come back down here to talk to us. A meeting that involved and was witnessed by many living humans so that the story could not be debunked as a fabrication.

4. Jesus Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, and whatever Gods of the major religions, all get together and actually physically appear to us, for the purpose of us ending all of this debate and conflict.

IN OTHER WORDS, show me the obvious! This whole notion of, "well faith is based on believing in something that you can't prove", doesn't even make sense to me! If an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-wise God created a race of beings, why would he then proceed to engage in this nonsense game of making us guess whether or not he was up there??? Why would he purposely choose to have us wage war against one another and cause millions of deaths?

That to me doesn't sound like the way a true all-wise creator of the universe would act.

The amazing Sam Harris himself said in one of his lectures, that if Jesus actually physically came down from the heavens in a chariot with trumpets blaring, and he landed, and we could actually shake his hand and reach out and hug him and talk to him, Science and all those who follow Science would IMMEDIATELY have to acknowledge that Jesus and Christianity are indeed real! At that very moment, Science would have its proof and it would have to immediately switch gears because of this new-found information.

And Atheists would all have to do the same thing.

So there you have it. That is the kind of proof I would need.

And no offense but - all of the things over the past 2,000 years that have been offered up as "proof" so far? Not good enough. Not even close. Every single one of them can be explained away as easily as The Lochness Monster or Big Foot.

I want to meet Jesus Christ and his father in PERSON.

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

What will atheists accept as proof He does exist. It works both ways.

Meeting the actual man in person would do it for me....doesn't seem to be too big or too unreasonable of a request from a guy who supposedly created the entire known universe in only seven days......I think the man could handle coordinating a day trip or two down to our tiny planet....

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

What will atheists accept as proof He does exist. It works both ways.

For Me,It wouldn't have to be anything huge or spectacular,Just little things,Like evil men no longer live to old age and die in comfort while babies die in the cradle.Someone goes into a school with a gun,It blows up in His hand,Someone plants a bomb,It blows Him straight to Hell,Free Will still applies but the innocent no longer suffer for it.Just little signs that this Universe is presided over by a Loving God not cold,indifferent chance.A God,I would worship wholeheartedly,Not a God Who insists on Blind faith and uses Human life and Human suffering to test that faith...