Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Or, the country could simply get organized and sell oil. Again, this is a rich country living like a poor one because of disastrous mismanagement. Its a millionaire living in the gutter.

[...]

Venezuela is more than capable of buying enough food to feed themselves.

Chavez himself said that Venezuelan people sadly were used to live with a rent.
It's their culture. They sadly are assisted people.

Bolivarianism wanted to get free of American Imperialism, but they started with a terrible lack of education.
Today you put Venezuela in Chinese party hand and you will see if they would starve.

But we must understand the culture in Venezuela, it is a culture of rent. A story that Chavez told a few years ago illustrates it well. One day in Barinas, in his region, he meets an old peasant. This one says to him: 'Ah I can not produce'. 'Why can not you produce?' Chavez asks him. 'I do not have any equipment'. Chavez arranges for the farmer to get a tractor. He goes back a year later. 'So, how are you ? What are you producing? "He asks. "Yes, that's fine, thank you," replied the peasant. I do not produce anything, I rent the tractor. Changing the economic fabric implies a change of mentality which takes longer.

Apart that your story have nothing to do with Communism or planned economy.
It's a story of pure Capitalist speculation with a currency trade at two different rates.

In the early 2000s, Venezuela operated an exchange control to prevent the flight of capital. This control led to the establishment of a black market, the famous parallel dollar system. Just before Chavez left for Cuba to seek treatment, in December 2012, 1 bolivar was exchanged against 4.30 dollars. At the same time, at the parallel rate, 1 bolivar was equivalent to $ 10. From January 2013, speculation against the bolivar has accelerated. In just a few days, we went to 20 dollars against 1 bolivar. Today, we are at 5,000! This speculation against the bolivar is deadly in a country that produces nothing and that imports everything.

What is happening is that private groups come to ask for foreign exchange from the state, which they get at the official rate, to import foodstuffs or other products. Only then they resell these products by aligning themselves with the parallel dollar. There is a real economic war. Take a company like Polar, the largest group in the country that supplies maize flour (staple food in Venezuela): Polar does not produce one hectare of maize. He seeks foreign exchange from the government at reduced prices and is accused of reselling the commodities at the price of the parallel dollar.

Polar is even accused of removing the products for storage in warehouses destined to feed the parallel market. This would explain among other things the phenomenon of "bachaqueros" (resellers who subtract goods from the distribution channel, ed). Added to this is a flow of money that has allowed drug traffickers, on the Colombian border, to launder their money. We went as far as to find entire warehouses with 100 Bolivar bills. This is the reason why President Maduro has ordered a time to withdraw the 100 bolivars tickets from circulation.

Just put the actual Chinese unique party instead a badly educated one and you will immediatly see the difference.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by Nobody1

Instead of making the country more independent of foreign influences by increasing self-sufficiency, especially in terms of agriculture and food production, they increased the dependence on all kinds of imports from the US, and thus made themself prone to Washington's sanction policy and the Wallstreet-driven currency war against the bolivar, which, taken together, had about the same impact on Venezuela's economy as carpet bombing.

But Chavez hired Vietnamese specialists to become self-sufficient in rice production, he also managed to be self-sufficient in pork meat.
He planned to develop agriculture, because he knew that the US government would try to create problems to free his country of American imperialism.

So what happened ?

Is it all the fault of Maduro or ... maybe of the local population too ?

The sheet of Chavez was socially good.

Even foreign Socio-Democrats political parties greeted him.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Enrico32

Petrol is unstable industry, and much profits need to be reinvested in drilling and refining.
"Petroleos" has more obligations towards its business partners than towards Venezuela.

But very few Venezuelans work in petrol.....

You need to go back and check your facts.

Venezuela has the LARGEST oil reserves in the world. LARGEST.

They have more oil than Saudi Arabia!

They have essentially the same size population as Saudi (roughly 32 million -- though at least 1 million people have fled Venezuela)

Venezuela is the world's oil superpower -- the only reason you don't know it is because they've utterly wrecked their oil production.

So you're simply wrong on all counts.

For a nation of 30 million people, 300 Billion barrels of oil -- which which can be lifted at a profit of at least $10 Trillion -- that's the most obvious thing to do.

I might add that no one has been doing much exploration in Venezuela in recent years, but its quite likely their reserves are even greater than that.

Venezuela, if managed by a government that wasn't actively destroying the nation's wealth, would be rich, indeed it once was rich.

Here's a bit of history-- back in the day, the Concorde used to fly to Caracas . . .



Venezuela was the wealthiest nation in South America, corrupt and with problems to be sure-- but getting steadily richer. They were buying oil refining assets around the world, with a plan to dominate the entire value creation from the well to the fuel pump.

And know they've got an impoverished nation that can't feed itself, and a national oil company that can't run existing wells, much less drill new ones.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

You need to go back and check your facts.

Venezuela has the LARGEST oil reserves in the world. LARGEST.

They have more oil than Saudi Arabia!

They need to take a lesson from my country,
Population only 2 weeks ago topped 25 million but we have the most and amongst the best mineral deposits, a lot of natural gas, could be the most but not sure, coal is more than plentiful, and we've never been fucked, why I hear the normal members ask, simple, embrace capitalism

No hunger here, poverty would be self inflicted even though there are what one would call poor. A shining example of capitalism at work, we've also had no recession in over 25 years, think about that, even during the GFC in 2008 we escaped unscathed even though it did mean our budget surplus was very diminished.

But wait, I can see the left (far left) members here think we're evil and blah blah blah

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

They need to take a lesson from my country,
Population only 2 weeks ago topped 25 million but we have the most and amongst the best mineral deposits, a lot of natural gas, could be the most but not sure, coal is more than plentiful, and we've never been fucked, why I hear the normal members ask, simple, embrace capitalism

No hunger here, poverty would be self inflicted even though there are what one would call poor. A shining example of capitalism at work, we've also had no recession in over 25 years, think about that, even during the GFC in 2008 we escaped unscathed even though it did mean our budget surplus was very diminished.

But wait, I can see the left (far left) members here think we're evil and blah blah blah

Yes, Venezuela is only slightly larger than Australia, and like Oz its got a ton of wealth in the ground, the difference is "OK, what do we do with it".

Oz has markets, and its got a competent State sector. Aussies in the US look at a US doctor's bill as insanity. The thing about Australia is that its "quietly competent". Australians get stuff done without making a big deal out of it . . . "you can do shit, if you just shut up and do it" seems to be the national motto.

The crazy thing is that you can have all these things. You can have markets and social welfare. You can have national health insurance. You can give everyone a good quality public education.

This stuff should be easy for a nation as [potentially] rich as Venezuela.

Instead, they drop a rock on their nuts and wonder "who's kicking me"

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Instead, they drop a rock on their nuts and wonder "who's kicking me"

I'm happy when it all collapses around people who vote for a "revolutionary socialist"

Even though he is, thank God, dead any leader of any political stance who in modern times wears shit like this



you can bet your balls they are full of shit

I might sound mean but I have zero sympathy for those suffering who voted that party in, I do feel for those who voted against.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

I'm happy when it all collapses around people who vote for a "revolutionary socialist"

{snip}

I might sound mean but I have zero sympathy for those suffering who voted that party in, I do feel for those who voted against.

At this point, the Maduro regime doesn't permit much in the way of elections (they hold elections, but given that Maduro banned the opposition parties, it doesn't mean much), no surprise that a million people have fled Venezuela.

There are some that have walked all the way to Argentina -- that's thousands of miles. Here's the incredible thing: Argentina is another should-be-rich but screwed it up with populist politics-- but Argentina proves that when you have a very good hand in life, you can do a lot of stupid shit and survive it. It takes a Chavez and Maduro to really sink the ship

Garden variety stupidities, like Argentina's, won't keep a rich nation down . ..

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

It takes a Chavez and Maduro to really sink the ship

Originally Posted by deepsepia

There are some that have walked all the way to Argentina --

I reckon they should walk to the Pacific, then raft across it, then half way across the Indian Ocean and settle in a paradise, Auroville

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Venezuela was the wealthiest nation in South America, corrupt and with problems to be sure-- but getting steadily richer. They were buying oil refining assets around the world, with a plan to dominate the entire value creation from the well to the fuel pump.

And know they've got an impoverished nation that can't feed itself, and a national oil company that can't run existing wells, much less drill new ones.

Your arguments have nothing to do with Communism or planned economy.
It's a story of pure Capitalist speculation with a currency trade at two different rates.

In the early 2000s, Venezuela operated an exchange control to prevent the flight of capital. This control led to the establishment of a black market, the famous parallel dollar system. Just before Chavez left for Cuba to seek treatment, in December 2012, 1 bolivar was exchanged against 4.30 dollars. At the same time, at the parallel rate, 1 bolivar was equivalent to $ 10. From January 2013, speculation against the bolivar has accelerated. In just a few days, we went to 20 dollars against 1 bolivar. Today, we are at 5,000! This speculation against the bolivar is deadly in a country that produces nothing and that imports everything.

What is happening is that private groups come to ask for foreign exchange from the state, which they get at the official rate, to import foodstuffs or other products. Only then they resell these products by aligning themselves with the parallel dollar. There is a real economic war. Take a company like Polar, the largest group in the country that supplies maize flour (staple food in Venezuela): Polar does not produce one hectare of maize. He seeks foreign exchange from the government at reduced prices and is accused of reselling the commodities at the price of the parallel dollar.

Polar is even accused of removing the products for storage in warehouses destined to feed the parallel market. This would explain among other things the phenomenon of "bachaqueros" (resellers who subtract goods from the distribution channel, ed). Added to this is a flow of money that has allowed drug traffickers, on the Colombian border, to launder their money. We went as far as to find entire warehouses with 100 Bolivar bills. This is the reason why President Maduro has ordered a time to withdraw the 100 bolivars tickets from circulation.

Just put the actual Chinese unique party instead a badly educated one and you will immediatly see the difference.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Your arguments have nothing to do with Communism or planned economy.
It's a story of pure Capitalist speculation with a currency trade at two different rates..

No, its simply the "story" of a nation with the largest oil reserves on the planet that has fired all the people who know how to pump oil and replaced them with their Party cronies, who don't actually know how to run an oil company.

Consequently their oil production has fallen by %50.

It really is that simple. If Venezuela were pumping as much as it did five years ago, they'd have plenty of money. But because they've wrecked the national oil company that paid all the bills, so now they can't pump oil and have no money to buy food.


Venezuela Oil Production 2013-2018