Current Politics in the United Kingdom

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

So it is mostly in Europe that GB- citizens are contributing here .

I know a lot of British-owned - for example - Tea stores and book stores. Tea stores with selling of drinks (tea) too.

Tea and book stores.
That would be a massive loss the German economy!
Merkel's kept quiet about that one.

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

Tea and book stores.
That would be a massive loss the German economy!
Merkel's kept quiet about that one.

I think not, not even less of them are attempting to become a German citizenship. It had been never needed/a topic before, but after the Brexit-decision it became topic.

The number of British employees I do not know, but I think it's balanced with Germans in GB.

[gordian_knot]

Originally Posted by Devius

Tory MP Andrea Leadsom says broadcasters need to be more patriotic while reporting the UK's negotiations with the EU.

Sources:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4038...o-be-patriotic
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0da2c731b6bd7


Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel
Samuel Johnson

Patriotic is the wrong word. But the point she was making was that broadcasters and commentators have been relentlessly hostile towards Brexit and any attempt to negotiate with the EU. The impression is that people like Maitlis either want the negotiations to fail or a deal which is much more favourable to the EU than it is to the UK.

Everyone in the UK should support the Govt. in its efforts to get a good deal. Whether they think someone else could get a better deal is irrelevant because like it or not they are not the ones negotiating.

It's clear from the first few days of talks that the EU intends to play hardball and to conduct the negotiations in the media and our own media shouldn't be playing for the away side.

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by gordian_knot

Everyone in the UK should support the Govt. in its efforts to get a good deal. Whether they think someone else could get a better deal is irrelevant because like it or not they are not the ones negotiating.

Does your job pretty much depend on staying in the customs union?

Mine does, so as long as May persists in leaving it, me and many others whose living depends on it will oppose the current May position of leaving it. This may not result in a successful result to you but a successful result is not an objective fact.
It depends on how you will be affected by it.

I think May's position could change if she can't get her way in Parliament.
The DUP don't seem at all keen on leaving the customs union either. They are the only thing standing between her and probable electoral defeat in the autumn.

[gordian_knot]

Originally Posted by vinceprince

Does your job pretty much depend on staying in the customs union?

Mine does, so as long as May persists in leaving it, me and many others whose living depends on it will oppose the current May position of leaving it. This may not result in a successful result to you but a successful result is not an objective fact.
It depends on how you will be affected by it.

I think May's position could change if she can't get her way in Parliament.
The DUP don't seem at all keen on leaving the customs union either. They are the only thing standing between her and probable electoral defeat in the autumn.

No, and I'm sorry that some people may initially lose out by the decision to leave the EU. That was always going to be the case. But that decision has been taken and people need to accept it for the good of the country as a whole. Even the Labour Party has accepted we'll be leaving the Customs Union although they are trying to fudge it by saying we can stay in 'if the EU changes its rules'. If we don't leave the Customs Union we can't negotiate our own trade deals.

But maybe if people weren't constantly giving the EU the idea that opposition to Brexit is so strong in the UK that they can take the hardest possible line then it's possible that compromise arrangements might be forthcoming whereby leaving the Single Market and Customs Union won't be the disaster you envisage.

I actually don't agree that Brexit depends on the DUP at all. Corbyn doesn't care about Brexit. His eyes are on another prize and at the moment that means him sticking to his manifesto. He will whip the Labour Party for any Brexit vote that doesn't go against it, because he doesn't want to lose pro-Brexit Labour voters before the next election.

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by gordian_knot

No, and I'm sorry that some people may initially lose out by the decision to leave the EU. That was always going to be the case. But that decision has been taken and people need to accept it for the good of the country as a whole. Even the Labour Party has accepted we'll be leaving the Customs Union although they are trying to fudge it by saying we can stay in 'if the EU changes its rules'. If we don't leave the Customs Union we can't negotiate our own trade deals.

Trade deals with America or the like are irrelevant to most small business like ours, same with perishable goods and farm products. We can just about cover the transport costs through the Channel Tunnel or to even to London. Exporting halfway across the world is pie in the sky.

I think if you asked people to decide on trade between Europe or Trump's protectionist USA I think it's a no brainer.

The Labour Party manifesto that people voted for, just like the referendum only said we are leaving the EU.

“We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit white paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the single market and the Customs Union - which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain."

Where does it say on either about leaving the single market or customs union?

If you so worried about manifestos/election promises the Tories have immediately scrapped 90% of theirs even though they still say they won the election. What about all their broken pledges, do they not matter?

[scoundrel]

Broken pledges are normal in politics. But in view of the fact that the voters did not endorse Mrs May's manifesto, she does not have a mandate and the Houses of Parliament are within their rights to reject any and all of her legislation as they see fit. She will be reduced to passing measures which command enough opposition votes to outgun the rebels in her own benches. The dementia tax was quietly dropped in favour of yet another consultation, six years after the Dinot Report proposed a cap of £35,000 on social costs to be recharged against the assets of the person being cared for. Six years in which nothing was done: and now we need another consultation?

One instrinctively knows when something is a load of old bollocks.

How the EU negotiations will progress is anyone's guess. But unless Britain leaves the single market and leaves the customs union, Britain is in fact still in the EU, except that we won't any say in what the EU decides anymore. It will be like Norway or Switzerland, including freedom of movement for lots of people to whom we very reasonably want to refuse freedom of movement on our soil. Of the three option, I preferred Leave; but I would prefer Remain than to choose this half-arsed in between position.

[gordian_knot]

Jeremy Corbyn, John Mcdonnell and Barry Gardiner have all said that Labour's position includes leaving the Single Market and Customs Union unless they can get the EU to change the 'four freedoms'. Presumably they know what Labour's position is better than anyone on this forum.

[vinceprince]

With the devaluation of the £ since the leave vote the main reason for immigration - wage differentials has decreased significantly hence the recruitment dip in the NHS. Not too mention as the perceived hostility to immigrants.

So not sure free movement is such a big issue now. In fact the only people that are complaining are employers like the NHS and farmers who have recruitment problems. Plus it seems likely those here will be allowed to stay here now anyway regardless of what they've been doing.

Switzerland had a referendum on immigration which they had to backtrack on in order to trade with the EU. And their per capita exports and GDP is far higher than ours. The Swiss opted instead to try to curb immigration by giving residents priority in new job vacancies.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rs-immigration

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by gordian_knot

Jeremy Corbyn, John Mcdonnell and Barry Gardiner have all said that Labour's position includes leaving the Single Market and Customs Union unless they can get the EU to change the 'four freedoms'. Presumably they know what Labour's position is better than anyone on this forum.

Strange it wasn't in the manifesto then wasn't it?

Did Labour win?

Then again make even manifesto promises don't mean Jack Shit if you abandon them immediately after you 'win' or even during the campaign.

Maybe it's best to ask the DUP if we really want to know what's going to happen.