Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Please help me.
How would you call a store in which people don't have to spend money?

Sears

[Enrico32]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

The final stage of Communism is the disintegration of the state, because people recognise their fraternity.

I solved the riddle why this is impossible.

Current society indoctrinates new people into it Constantly. The cycle seems continuous, all grownups support it and cannot think of anything else.

What would you suggest, Xyzde?

[scoundrel]

The disintegration of the state will be followed within days by mass starvation and by plagues of the classic water bourn killer diseases - dysentery, cholera, typhoid etc. All the services provided by the state, which include clean water, will not magically continue when no one is looking after the infrastructure. Public order will not magically self-sustain with no police and no army.

To speak on a post-communist paradise in which the state merely disintegrates because it is redundant is pure comedy. People need structure. The discussion on this thread is about how that structure might or might not work. N'cest pas?

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Enrico32

I solved the riddle why this is impossible.

Current society indoctrinates new people into it Constantly. The cycle seems continuous, all grownups support it and cannot think of anything else.

What would you suggest, Xyzde?

Stalin, Pol Pot & Mao got to that idea before you. The notion was that you had to "build the new Soviet man" before you could have "true communism" -- and that included killing a lot of everyone else.

This "new Soviet man" would be amenable to communism in a way that the dead were not.

Didn't work out that way. Turns out beating, starving and shooting millions of people builds fear and a police state, not "fraternity".

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

The disintegration of the state will be followed within days by mass starvation and by plagues of the classic water bourn killer diseases - dysentery, cholera, typhoid etc. All the services provided by the state, which include clean water, will not magically continue when no one is looking after the infrastructure. Public order will not magically self-sustain with no police and no army.

To speak on a post-communist paradise in which the state merely disintegrates because it is redundant is pure comedy. People need structure. The discussion on this thread is about how that structure might or might not work. N'cest pas?

I have been thinking about this and hope the kids can figure it out. Capitalism seems to work best for developing new technologies and advancing living standards. Universal democracy is the most popular form of government, but seems to devolve into a popularity contest where the those who can actually do the job lose to the popular or most compromised candidate. I really do believe that strong government is needed to keep the corporations in line. Corporations by nature are predatory organizations.

Healthcare, education, and infrastructure are too important to the wellbeing of society to be sources of profit. Ultimately denial of service and artificial scarcities are used to increase profits and executive rewards.

How is strong government kept working for the wellbeing of society at large? The natural tendency is for the government to be co-opted by the wealthy and corporations to exploit the working classes.

Not to mention the looming environmental fiasco, AI and robotics threaten to eliminate a great many jobs, even jobs done by smart people. Hospitals are already using robot surgeons who damage patients less than human surgeons. In the not too distant future we should have AI lawyers that can kick the butts of all human shysters.

Do we go ahead and build the terminators or do we find some way other than work to allocate the necessities of life among human beings?

[Enrico32]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Stalin, Pol Pot & Mao got to that idea before you. The notion was that you had to "build the new Soviet man" before you could have "true communism"

No. They talked about it but didn't actually do.
That's why their regimes were -- obviously -- not "true communism."

Everyone involved in this countries' revolutions was formed up (as a person) under preceding classic bureaucratic monarchism. How could they be true communists?

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by Enrico32

No. They talked about it but didn't actually do.
That's why their regimes were -- obviously -- not "true communism."

They were doing what they thought you had to do to build "true communism".

Originally Posted by Enrico32

Everyone involved in this countries' revolutions was formed up (as a person) under preceding classic bureaucratic monarchism. How could they be true communists?

Pol Pot and Mao in particular were explicit about destroying the past-- they were hardly prisoners of their nations' history-- they were happy enough to burn it down.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Won't you have ration cards? And you'll get truffles while Estreeter gets old vegetables and gruel? Because he is an "evil" reformed capitalist and you are among the enlightened?

It would be interesting to give you power like that and see what you would actually do.

I think it wouldn't be pretty.

I think that Estreeter, Scoundrel, Dr Pepper, Deepsepia, you and I, if having being educated in "real Communist" schools would be excellent Communist.

We would collaborate together far more spontaneously and despise the exploitation of the man by the man.

Originally Posted by deepsepia

Yes, "all Power to the Party" -- once they have "all power", these comrades will work on the people's behalf until the day they happily give up power . . .

Venezuela is a democracy. That disturbs your government (and yourself) that dislike the fact that they democratically voted a Bolivarianist President.

I really need to point your total hypocrisy, when defending democracy and not liking the results.

Originally Posted by Brian249x

Sears

I searched several translations and didn't find anything relevant in French language.

Originally Posted by Enrico32

I solved the riddle why this is impossible.

Current society indoctrinates new people into it Constantly. The cycle seems continuous, all grownups support it and cannot think of anything else.

What would you suggest, Xyzde?

I wrote here a Constitution (that could be improved), but looking at facts, I think that there is no formal solution.

1) Bouddha "gospels" didn't abolish classes,
2) Christ "gospels" didn't abolish classes,
3) Mahomet "gospels" didn't abolish classes,
3) Marx "gospels" didn't abolish classes,

Just read here anti-communist thinkers. Probably 70% of them believe in God, think that what is taught in gospels are good, but still hardly defend the exploitation of the man by the man, illegitimated rich classes manipulating lowest classes, money as new god.

What can you do against that ?
I only think that humanity has to wait for spontaneous revolutions until the good one will be imposed to unfair people.
But will humanity will survive until the appearance of true Communism?
Probably after billion of dead people killed by the horrors generated by desastrous Capitalism.

Originally Posted by scoundrel

The disintegration of the state will be followed within days by mass starvation and by plagues of the classic water bourn killer diseases - dysentery, cholera, typhoid etc.

Are we that sure that the disintegration of the state is not the final stage of Capitalism?

Originally Posted by Enrico32

No. They talked about it but didn't actually do.
That's why their regimes were -- obviously -- not "true communism."

Everyone involved in this countries' revolutions was formed up (as a person) under preceding classic bureaucratic monarchism. How could they be true communists?

Real communism exists in Amazon tribes, Indonesian tribes.
They are put under pressure of the merchants offering them Coca Cola and destroying their rain forests to produce CHEAP palm oil.

Still real and well preserved spiritual humanity is on the way to disappear, because of the merchants of the Capitalist temples.

Originally Posted by Brian249x

Universal democracy is the most popular form of government, but seems to devolve into a popularity contest where the those who can actually do the job lose to the popular or most compromised candidate.

That must be discussed.

I'd like to get the result of a worldwide survey:

What would you prefer?

1) A bad democracy
2) A good dictatorship
3) Anarchy (in the Proudhon point of view, not the one spread by the auto-proclamed" elite.

As I said already in this topic, I know quite a lot of Italian people telling me that their grandfathers praised Italian fascism.
Interesting isn't it?
It seems that Churchill was a fan of Mussolini.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

I think that Estreeter, Scoundrel, Dr Pepper, Deepsepia, you and I, if having being educated in "real Communist" schools would be excellent Communist.

What evidence do you have for this statement?

Where can I see one of these "real Communist schools"?

[Wendigo]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

What evidence do you have for this statement?

Where can I see one of these "real Communist schools"?

At the bottom of xyz's garden near that small stone circle where the pixies dance at night time