Weaponry; Discussion of Rights and Responsibilities

[Rogerbh]

Awhile back there were some posts about the NRA blocking CDC studies about gun violence. This was because as I recall, the head of the CDC considered the wish to own a gun a sign of mental illness.

I have read recently that President Obama ordered the CDC to study gun violence in 2013. The resulting report did not yield the results that the anti-gunners were expecting. The Washington Post tried to discuss the results in the best light for anti-gunners but the fact that no follow up reports have been issued is the most damming fact that has emerged from this report.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.de2ff76c5398

Note: The Washington Post brings up suicide as a risk of gun ownership but neglects to mention that the US suicide rate is close to that of non-gun UK and gun restricted Germany. (In that I mean the UK suicides and the German suicides still manage to off themselves at near the same rate as in the US despite the lack of easily accessible firearms.)

A pro gun article is much more explicit. http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/...ires-on-obama/

The top three stated facts:

1. Armed citizens are less likely to be injured by an attacker:
“Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

2. Defensive uses of guns are common:
“Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

3. Mass shootings and accidental firearm deaths account for a small fraction of gun-related deaths, and both are declining:
“The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths. Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons.” The report also notes, “Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010.”

The article ends - "Unfortunately, mainstream media failed to get the story they were hoping for, and their silence on the matter is a screaming illustration of their underlying agenda."

[profvolup]

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Awhile back there were some posts about the NRA blocking CDC studies about gun violence. This was because as I recall, the head of the CDC considered the wish to own a gun a sign of mental illness.

Indeed. There is a political slant to make various things a 'mental illness.'

The US CDC already studies all violence, and breaks all types down. There are exact statistics for each and every type of gun 'crime,' including, in decreasing order of commonality ...
- Suicides (~70%) -- yes, it is a crime to kill yourself in the US
- Unlawful homicides by organized crime (~20%)
- Accidents (3~4%)
- Unlawful homcides by non-organized crime (2~3%)
- Lawful homicides aka self-defense (1~2%)

Suicides are then also studied by the CDC too.
And organized crime has its own studies, CDC and otherwise.

It gets even weirder when the CDC also breaks down 'accidents,' including 'negligence,' because guns are a tiny fraction of many other types of accidents. Not just automobiles (over an order of magnitude greater), but based on pool ownership, prescription drugs, etc...

But the media doesn't talk about that. In fact, they talk about 'gun crime' including 'suicides' as being 'close to auto accidents.'

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

Note: The Washington Post brings up suicide as a risk of gun ownership but neglects to mention that the US suicide rate is close to that of non-gun UK and gun restricted Germany. (In that I mean the UK suicides and the German suicides still manage to off themselves at near the same rate as in the US despite the lack of easily accessible firearms.)

I am thinking that the Japanese really find ways to off themselves without guns, but it plays havoc with the train schedules.

It has become much clearer to me that many of our elected officials really don't trust us citizens at all and are inclined to treat us like children. While it is true that God has made sure that we don't lack in stupidity, we are mostly capable of acting with good judgment. All of the gun owners I know have taken courses in gun safety or have had military training. (Interestingly enough none of the combat vets seem to own guns.) They take measures like gun safes to secure their weapons. They make sure that their children are trained in gun safety and maintenance before allowing them to gain experience in target shooting.

There are also many people like myself that know they are poor shots, lack impulse control, or both, who have never owned guns. I am legally blind in one eye and now have a severe tremor. Sometimes, I think of getting a gun for protection as our society seems to becoming unraveled. The only suitable weapons would seem to be a shotgun or AK-47, but I have gone this long without a gun, so why change? Besides, my lease prohibits having firearms on the premises.

Well, anyway after that little diversion, it seems to me that we are mostly able to act responsibly around guns. Perhaps, the government should think about reducing its firepower and committing more resources to education, road maintenance and healthcare.

[vannax]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

I am thinking that the Japanese really find ways to off themselves without guns, but it plays havoc with the train schedules.

It has become much clearer to me that many of our elected officials really don't trust us citizens at all and are inclined to treat us like children. While it is true that God has made sure that we don't lack in stupidity, we are mostly capable of acting with good judgment. All of the gun owners I know have taken courses in gun safety or have had military training. (Interestingly enough none of the combat vets seem to own guns.) They take measures like gun safes to secure their weapons. They make sure that their children are trained in gun safety and maintenance before allowing them to gain experience in target shooting.

There are also many people like myself that know they are poor shots, lack impulse control, or both, who have never owned guns. I am legally blind in one eye and now have a severe tremor. Sometimes, I think of getting a gun for protection as our society seems to becoming unraveled. The only suitable weapons would seem to be a shotgun or AK-47, but I have gone this long without a gun, so why change? Besides, my lease prohibits having firearms on the premises.

Well, anyway after that little diversion, it seems to me that we are mostly able to act responsibly around guns. Perhaps, the government should think about reducing its firepower and committing more resources to education, road maintenance and healthcare.

If the feds just followed the Constitution, specifically the 9A and 10A, none of these "problems" would exist.

[Rogerbh]

The comment about Japanese committing suicide by jumping in front of trains got my interest. https://www.tofugu.com/japan/suicide-in-japan/

They actually seem to prefer the English method of hanging themselves. The train method doesn't even crack the top five ways to off oneself. (Pretty smart that the train companies were suing the families of the people who did that, Japanese do not want to cause problems for their families.) That method of dying by exposure - like in the famous suicide forest - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara - doesn't even rate a mention.

Wonder why Greenland leads the world in suicides.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by Rogerbh

(...)

Wonder why Greenland leads the world in suicides.

Probably the lack of daylight (though the climate isn't helping either)

[Old Jud]

Originally Posted by profvolup

- Suicides (~70%) -- yes, it is a crime to kill yourself in the US

And rightly so, anyone who commits suicide should serve life in prison......

[vannax]

Originally Posted by Old Jud

And rightly so, anyone who commits suicide should serve life in prison......

When a policeman sees a man trying to commit suicide, he should shoot first and ask questions later, all in the name of suicide prevention.

[bp666]

Some shocking events taking place in Las Vegas. More than 20 dead and more than 100 injured. Appears police have takne down the shooter and are hunting for a female "companion".

Senseless gun violence. My heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones and those injured.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/u...-shooting.html

[vinceprince]

Originally Posted by bp666

Some shocking events taking place in Las Vegas. More than 20 dead and more than 100 injured. Appears police have takne down the shooter and are hunting for a female "companion".

Senseless gun violence. My heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones and those injured.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/u...-shooting.html

Stephen Paddock was the shooter. Terrorist or Mentally ill?