The Middle East

[carpaths]

Originally Posted by Zidon

But IMO this war is un-winnable, or rather Hamas is winning because it calls all the shots combined with the fact that it doesn't care about loss of life on its own side.

Third Reich also didn't care about casualties especially when Berlin was sieged. And where it is now?

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by Sir Spender

There`s a 72 hour humanitarian truce now in place, thankfully.

I really doubt that they'll get to 72 hours (it doesn't take that long to reload)

[brk549]

When police have a suspect cornered and they hold an innocent in front of them and the innocent is hurt or killed who do who do you blame especially when the suspect has an endless number of innocents to grab.The liberal media in this country and around the world never seemed to be at the very least bewildered by the firing of rockets by Hamas for what the past six months or longer.Innocent people have been hurt and killed in Israel for quite some time now and the media has just been ho hum.Why were they not as quick to stop the rockets from Hamas as they were to stop Israel's artillery.If Hamas would ever get the upper hand world opinion won't matter to them and the number of Jews killed in WII won't be a drop in the bucket compared to what they do.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by cicciobuki

I really doubt that they'll get to 72 hours (it doesn't take that long to reload)

Funny, but also not, yet 100% true

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by carpaths

Third Reich also didn't care about casualties especially when Berlin was sieged. And where it is now?

You think ..... they are hiding now in Tel Aviv's Knesset ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldZujjKojvo
"Lebensraum in the east" it was called in the Third Reich.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9d4BLaXZCM
And some of their followers: Remove Arabs and Palestine out of Israel, West Bank and Gaza.

[Wendigo]

From the 1970's on the Palestinian cause has been associated with terrorism whether from Black September to the multitude of paramilitary groups with different variations along the lines of the PLO,PLA, PFLP nonsense so nicely caricatured in Monty Pythons Life of Brian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY

Israel has not helped by the way it behaves at times but with the PLO variants hiding amongst civilians taking a leaf out of Chairperson Mao "The guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea" of course when Israel retaliates civilians get hurt, that's what the PLO variants including the latest version Hamas have always wanted.

Both sides kill civilians, the Palestinians have a long history of deliberately targeting them, the Israeli's mostly kill them from long distance in retaliatory attacks. No side comes out smelling of roses here.

Too many people have been killed by both sides, too many wasted opportunities remember the Nobel Peace Prize for 1994 awarded to Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin "for their efforts to create peace in the Middle East", like rewarding someone for making a sand castle by the beach and then being surprised when you go back a few years later and it has gone.

Every time there is a glint of progress someone pokes their nose in, often deliberate provocations designed to relight the fuse.

Mousa Mohammed Abu Marzook, deputy chairman of Hamas's political bureau has only just recently reiterated their belief that "Hamas will not recognize Israel ... this is a red line that cannot be crossed" so as long as the Palestinians elect people who do not recognise the right of Israel to exist how can there be any progress?

For two supposedly devout religious peoples who worship the same God they are certainly both pisspoor adverts for their faith.

This ceasefire will probably be broken and the very best case I can see is that it may run its course but will then be forgotten as they go back to their old grudge matches.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

This ceasefire will probably be broken and the very best case I can see is that it may run its course but will then be forgotten as they go back to their old grudge matches.

In fact it aready has been broken a few hours ago, and according to my sources (belgian media) both parties are blaming each other.



... not that there were many people left that didn't see that coming.

[BinLadenSucks]

You guys remember back in the Vietnam war the controversy of letting in the free press during conflict? (I was so young at the time, so I'm not sure if I picked it up at the time or later in life.) I thought I remember the military claiming how it would nearly make the war unwinnable. That the American public would not be able to handle the true horrors of war. (At least that's how I remember it.)

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the press should not be allowed in. I'm just claiming how the change has affected how we now view wars.

A couple days back I jumped out of my comfortable news source to get wider perspective. I was constantly fed footage of the agonizing citizens and the griefs that they are bearing. And this was from a News source that many feel is a more balanced approach. (Not the "Fair & Balanced" place, just one that feels they are more balanced.) Last night I tried it again and just got the same results.

I'm sure I'll be considered an insensitive hardass by some. But this reminds me of nightly news casts on how they'll highlight footage of a mother losing her child. Nothing but grieving pain. No controlled speech, just pure agony. Or the stupid question "How does it make you feel having to lose your son." Of course we know how she feels....Nothing but agonizing pain.

Just now I checked that news source and found that they will be covering "How the children of Palestine are dealing the war." I think we already know...."It's F'ed up".

I know we need to know the casualties, and sometimes we need a refresher on the devastation it causes. But why the constant hammering of this one issue? Is it to take focus off of the original issue at hand?

I remember an earlier post of simplicity and how the main issues get lost buy focusing on other ones.Seems this news source has lost focus on the cause of the conflict and only wants to emphasizes one part of the issue.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by Sir Spender

I thought it was generally accepted that the majority of broadcasting in the U.S was heavily biased & disproportionately skewed ???
you pick your news according to your views?
There`s a 72 hour humanitarian truce now in place, thankfully.

Spender I think there are NO broadcasting outfits any where that can be found to be unbiased in some form or another. When ever humans are involved there will be their biases reflected in the reports. Maybe not the reporters but the owner, producers, etc. who can have the news slanted their way.
While I don't watch a lot of news shows I don't like to watch those that are diametrically opposed to my views. (I already take BP meds). By the same token I also don't like shows that are vehement about my views. I would LOVE balanced, unbiased, reporting but I think it will be a cold day in Hades before that happens, IMO.
I heard that truce has already been broken

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by carpaths

I saw in the news France aid to "Palestine" around 11 million Euro. It seems like a knife in the back for Israel.

Yeah but it is France so what do you expect???