The Middle East

[vegetta67]

The Middle East is a disaster to happen anytime soon.
Both side , palestinians and israelis are engaged in a pointless fight .
Palestina have been sponsored by Arab states and support them any way they can. Even knowing atrocities have been done on their neighbors.
Israel has been protected , armed with nuclear missiles and excused by US goverment.
Israel can erase the Middle East in just seconds without retaliation , and it gets even better , because Israel behaves like a rough state , without allowing nor declaring its nuclear capabilities . But point Iran or other arab state with nuclear reactor in its territories or launch coward preventive attacks but refuse to declare its own weapons .In short it is a disaster wating to happen , one attack the other will retialiate , strong to stronger until one simply pushes the other too far. Deafness is the big abscent in both sides and th cuurrent conflict there is a failure to listen.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by vegetta67

The Middle East is a disaster to happen anytime soon.
Both side , palestinians and israelis are engaged in a pointless fight .
Palestina have been sponsored by Arab states and support them any way they can. Even knowing atrocities have been done on their neighbors.
Israel has been protected , armed with nuclear missiles and excused by US goverment.
Israel can erase the Middle East in just seconds without retaliation , and it gets even better , because Israel behaves like a rough state , without allowing nor declaring its nuclear capabilities . But point Iran or other arab state with nuclear reactor in its territories or launch coward preventive attacks but refuse to declare its own weapons .In short it is a disaster wating to happen , one attack the other will retialiate , strong to stronger until one simply pushes the other too far. Deafness is the big abscent in both sides and th current conflict there is a failure to listen.

Veg not quite sure what you are trying to say. Pointless I agree but it is my believe that Israel would live and let live if they weren't getting attacked by Hamas, Hezbollah, and others.
Israel does have nukes, wither they have missiles to carry them I am not sure. Maybe plane delivered? Consider the fall out from such a massive nuke attack such as it would take to wipe out the surrounding Arab nations.
It seems Israel may have gotten their nukes on their own.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclea...ons_and_Israel
What about the atrocities committed on Israel by Hamas and the other haters?

[hound dog]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

I am not sure Pakistan is considered Middle Eastern but I think I HATE them. Condemning a Christian woman to death for drinking from a muslim well Fuck them I am tired of this muslim crap Will the US do anything against this ally HA.

You're so in favor of the U.S. sending troops to every corner of the Middle East and beyond to put muslim's in their place, Lindsey Graham should consider you for a running mate.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by hound dog

You're so in favor of the U.S. sending troops to every corner of the Middle East and beyond to put muslim's in their place, Lindsey Graham should consider you for a running mate.

No I am not but there comes a time when humanity cries out for succor and the locals are not capable of fighting it.

I guess you don't care about crap like this unless it happens in your homeland?? You are willing to just let it happen?? If so may it come home to roost.
IMO you fight evil where evil is or it will come to you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6613578.html

http://nypost.com/2015/01/19/isis-ex...tching-soccer/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-reveals.html

[hound dog]

Originally Posted by hound dog

You're so in favor of the U.S. sending troops to every corner of the Middle East and beyond to put muslim's in their place, Lindsey Graham should consider you for a running mate.

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

No I am not but there comes a time when humanity cries out for succor and the locals are not capable of fighting it.

I guess you don't care about crap like this unless it happens in your homeland?? You are willing to just let it happen?? If so may it come home to roost.
IMO you fight evil where evil is or it will come to you.

So we need to send troops to Syria, whats left of Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, several places in Africa...any place else you'd like to send our boys? Oh yeah, Yemen. Iran? North Korea? What about Cuba? Should we get in an invasion there before President Obama goes too far in normalizing relations? Putin's not exactly Mr. Congeniality, what about Russia?

I don't believe it's our responsibility, and rather than squander further lives, resources and tax dollars in areas of the world where we don't have a snowballs chance in hell of changing the the moral values of the indigenous populations that are based on religious interpretation and would only continue to incite terrorists to further attack, would rather spend that money benefiting our own population.

If you want to fight evil where evil is, lets start right here in the good ol' U.S.A. We have plenty of racism and intolerance right here. Or are Blacks and Mexicans exempt of protection from persecution? Here's a little exercise for you, the next time your outraged by atrocities against Christians, substitute "Black's" for "Christian's" and see if you're still outraged.

I stand by my post.

[BondJmsBond]

Maybe troops are not the answer, but sticking our heads in the sand while decrying our own shortfalls doesn't sound like something that would work.

[hound dog]

Originally Posted by BondJmsBond

Maybe troops are not the answer, but sticking our heads in the sand while decrying our own shortfalls doesn't sound like something that would work.

If troops aren't the answer, and they aren't, what do you suggest? The Saudi's, who are the root cause of most of the problems over there, have enough money to throw around for decades to come.

The only thing that might have an effect is a total ban on trade, tech and travel, though it would take years. I'm talking total isolation. But the rest of the world wants/needs oil, International Corporations/Big Business would never stand for it, and they own too many of our politicians. The rulers of the Middle Eastern countries want to keep their populations backward, stupid and controllable, they stay in power that way.

The west reminds me of the girl who thinks she can change her boyfriend and it just isn't going to happen. Until the people over there get fed up enough that they demand changes themselves no change will take place. They have to demand real change though, they can't just replace one despot with another and expect anything different. Imposing our values, beliefs, lifestyle through military action is not going to work.

[CARLTON BROWN]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Veg not quite sure what you are trying to say. Pointless I agree but it is my believe that Israel would live and let live if they weren't getting attacked by Hamas, Hezbollah, and others.
Israel does have nukes, wither they have missiles to carry them I am not sure. Maybe plane delivered? Consider the fall out from such a massive nuke attack such as it would take to wipe out the surrounding Arab nations.
It seems Israel may have gotten their nukes on their own.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclea...ons_and_Israel
What about the atrocities committed on Israel by Hamas and the other haters?

SF, Israel is said to currently have a stockpile in excess of 200 nuclear/thermonuclear warheads for use on their Jerico series of ballistic missiles which are apparently similar to the US Minuteman and modified submarine launched Harpoon missiles. How many free fall nukes they have for their F-15s and F-16s is hard to guess.

There is supposedly a secret, last resort plan called The Samson Option to be used in a total war with Arab countries. It would involve massive nuclear strikes against military and civil targets. On the list are supposedly places like Mecca and Tehran. There is almost no doubt that the Middle East would effectively cease to exist if they were ever pushed into exercising this plan and the rest of the world would reel from the effects for decades, assuming it didn't lead to WW3.

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by hound dog

So we need to send troops to Syria, whats left of Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, several places in Africa...any place else you'd like to send our boys? Oh yeah, Yemen. Iran? North Korea? What about Cuba? Should we get in an invasion there before President Obama goes too far in normalizing relations? Putin's not exactly Mr. Congeniality, what about Russia?

I don't believe it's our responsibility, and rather than squander further lives, resources and tax dollars in areas of the world where we don't have a snowballs chance in hell of changing the the moral values of the indigenous populations that are based on religious interpretation and would only continue to incite terrorists to further attack, would rather spend that money benefiting our own population.

If you want to fight evil where evil is, lets start right here in the good ol' U.S.A. We have plenty of racism and intolerance right here. Or are Blacks and Mexicans exempt of protection from persecution? Here's a little exercise for you, the next time your outraged by atrocities against Christians, substitute "Black's" for "Christian's" and see if you're still outraged.I stand by my post.

You come across as pretty self righteous IMO. Have you done anything for the good ol' U.S.A. about any thing??? I am outraged by several things that happen in the US including the slaughter in SC, the persecution in Baltimore, drive by cowards, drug dealers, home grown terrorists, and others.
Tell ya what I hope it comes home to roost in your back yard because you do not seem to appreciate humane treatment nor the fact that at times some one from outside does need to step in and help.

[BondJmsBond]

Originally Posted by hound dog

If troops aren't the answer, and they aren't, what do you suggest?

I keep hoping the locals take care if IS themselves, with our limited help. Mixed results so far. But how can we sit and watch the horrific brutality and do nothing, when we reasonably could, and still call ourselves people?
I also feel strongly we should prevent Iran from getting the bomb by whatever means we have to. Then the Saudi's would have to go nuke too. Iran has called Israel "A one-bomb country." Carlton's post makes a scary point.

Originally Posted by hound dog

The west reminds me of the girl who thinks she can change her boyfriend and it just isn't going to happen. Until the people over there get fed up enough that they demand changes themselves no change will take place. They have to demand real change though, they can't just replace one despot with another and expect anything different. Imposing our values, beliefs, lifestyle through military action is not going to work.

I like the analogy, and that's all true. Iraq could have a chance, but religion fucks everything up. I wish I knew an answer.
Maybe what we do now is about all we can, letting them kill each other some is actually in our interest and we just try to keep a lid on it when it gets too out of hand.
I'd love to let them do whatever and be done and gone that'd be awesome; but we can't just leave altogether, it'd go to hell quick, the world is too small now and we're all tied together too much for that.