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Old 04-20-2017, 08:24 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by martynz View Post
The Allied Powers were aware of the scale of the Jewish Holocaust two-and-a-half years earlier than is generally assumed,
and had even prepared war crimes indictments against Adolf Hitler and his top Nazi commanders.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7688036.html
They must have been aware since 1936 - 1939, but not official / public.

Evidences:
Ships with Jews where send back all over the world.
The British, USA, Argentina, Egypt and Palestine (British occupied) send back all the Jews (-Ships) to Germany. Most made literately an Odesy.

It seems to me, in a first step Hitler doesn't wanted to kill all those Jews - this came a bit later. Of course they were robbed before, there was very little cash allowed.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:42 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Puhbear69 View Post
They must have been aware since 1936 - 1939, but not official / public.

It seems to me, in a first step Hitler doesn't wanted to kill all those Jews - this came a bit later.
Definitely have to disagree Puh. IMO Hitler hated Semites for awhile.
The link below is from an admittedily biased source but----

http://www.annefrank.org/en/Anne-Fra...-antisemitism/
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:19 AM   #163
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Definitely have to disagree Puh. IMO Hitler hated Semites for awhile.
The link below is from an admittedly biased source but----

http://www.annefrank.org/en/Anne-Fra...-antisemitism/
Hitler didn't hated the Semites really. It was part of his very brutal strategy to catch (simple-) voters; today we call those people "populists" of different directions. Correct is, that he made the thoughts of Karl Lueger to his own.
There were others before he got in charge. But he was telling about the "World Judaism" in "Mein Kampf" before.

So I came to this consideration: in a first step he wanted them lost, out of Germany. As this seemed to be failed, .....
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:51 PM   #164
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That's it,He wanted the Jews out of Europe,When He couldn't resettle Them anywhere,He decided on genocide.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:39 PM   #165
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God bless 6 millions Jewish died.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:42 PM   #166
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Shoah Claude Lanzmann.
Raul Hillberg and many true historian. etc..
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:48 PM   #167
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Exactly how and why the project evolved to murder a whole race of people is not definitively catalogued in terms of who decided what and when. But it seems clear enough that this project did evolve over time. Hitler's pathalogical hatred for Jews and others (Russians, Gypsies, homosexuals not the only ones) went back at least to Landsberg prison and the writing of Mein Kampf. But it is not clear that he had a plan to exterminate such people as far back as that.

I think there was a snowball effect as people with passionate hatreds gathered together under one banner. Not only was Hitler not the only murderous anti-semitic nut-job in the room, he was by no means the most stridently and energetically focused murderer in the room. He liked to signal direction and then let the minions do the hard work. In the hate tent he had Goebbels for the well-poisoning; Bormann as a bag carrier and Himmler and Heydrich to make the actual bad deeds happen. There were plenty of others helping to provide the suitable ambience; people like the odious Robert Ley, Alfred Rosenberg (who was garotted very slowly by the Nuremberg hangman but deserves no sympathy); Julius Streicher, who wrote prolifically on anti-semitic topics and would have dishonoured the noble word "scum". These people egged each other on and became cumulatively more open and brutal in their actions and thoughts as the time went by.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:55 PM   #168
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You may want to read about the so-called Madagascar Plan. I don't know how accurate this article is but it gives you an approximate idea about some of the ideas behind the planned relocation of the European Jews. Those ideas were not exclusively German but it was the Germans who decided to carry out a genocide.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:57 PM   #169
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God bless 6 millions Jewish died.
Three million of them were Polish. And Six million Poles were killed during the second world war.
It puts Soviet propaganda about twenty-five million soviet fatalities in perspective and look very dubious.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:05 PM   #170
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This a bit long but has list of the murders :
Number of Deaths Jews: up to 6 million
Soviet civilians: around 7 million (including 1.3 Soviet Jewish civilians, who are included in the 6 million figure for Jews)
Soviet prisoners of war: around 3 million (including about 50,000 Jewish soldiers)
Non-Jewish Polish civilians: around 1.8 million (including between 50,000 and 100,000 members of the Polish elites)
Serb civilians (on the territory of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina): 312,000
People with disabilities living in institutions: up to 250,000
Roma (Gypsies): 196,000–220,000
Jehovah's Witnesses: Around 1,900
Repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials: at least 70,000
German political opponents and resistance activists in Axis-occupied territory: undetermined
Homosexuals: hundreds, possibly thousands (possibly also counted in part under the 70,000 repeat criminal offenders and so-called asocials noted above)
Jewish Loss by Location of Death
With regard to the number of Jews who died in the Holocaust, best estimates for the breakdown of Jewish loss according to location of death follow:
Auschwitz complex (including Birkenau, Monowitz, and subcamps): approximately 1 million
Treblinka 2: approximately 925,000
Belzec: 434,508
Sobibor: at least 167,000
Chelmno: 156,000–172,000
Shooting operations at various locations in central and southern German-occupied Poland (the so-called Government General): at least 200,000
Shooting operations in German-annexed western Poland (District Wartheland): at least 20,000
Deaths in other facilities that the Germans designated as concentration camps: at least 150,000
Shooting operations and gas wagons at hundreds of locations in the German-occupied Soviet Union: at least 1.3 million
Shooting operations in the Soviet Union (German, Austrian, Czech Jews deported to the Soviet Union): approximately 55,000
Shooting operations and gas wagons in Serbia: at least 15,088
Shot or tortured to death in Croatia under the Ustaša regime: 23,000–25,000
Deaths in ghettos: at least 800,000
Other*: at least 500,000
*"Other" includes, for example, persons killed in shooting operations in Poland in 1939–1940; as partisans in Yugoslavia, Greece, Italy, France or Belgium; in labor battalions in Hungary; during antisemitic actions in Germany and Austria before the war; by the Iron Guard in Romania, 1940–1941; and on evacuation marches from concentration camps and labor camps in the last six months of World War II. It also includes people caught in hiding and killed in Poland, Serbia, and elsewhere in German-occupied Europe.
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