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Old 01-28-2013, 05:28 PM   #11
otokonomidori
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I got 88% correct in the Citizen Test - and I wouldn't visit the USA, let alone become a citizen.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by fleetwood77 View Post
I got 88% correct in the Citizen Test - and I wouldn't visit the USA, let alone become a citizen.
Hah!

Scored an 88 as well - darn, I thought Susan B Anthony made the flag

On a side note;

I used to work with many Americans, dealt with thousands of them on a daily basis, but not here in Canada. If I had a nickel for every time I heard the words..." The US is the best country in the world", I would be a rich man. I guess it's true what they say about not being able to see the forest through the trees.

My standard response was; "Oh, so how did you like Japan? Crowded, huh? How about Australia? Great beaches, no? I really enjoyed Brasil - people are so warm there."

I received many a blank stare in return, with the inevitable, "I've never been there"

"Oh..."

I've often wondered if they ever made the connection...
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by begos View Post

Palin speaks out after leaving Fox

The Republican National Committee gathered last week for its winter meeting, where several GOP leaders argued the party needed to make serious changes in messaging and outreach to become more inclusive. Last year's presidential election results show that President Barack Obama overwhelmingly won African Americans, Asians and Latinos.

Palin, however, said some in the party are being "skittish" because of the election results.

"They shouldn’t be. Conservatism didn’t lose. A moderate Republican candidate lost after he was perceived to alienate working class Reagan Democrat and independent voters who didn’t turn out for him as much as they did for the McCain/Palin ticket in 2008,"
Mr Romney was a moderate? Presumably Mr Ryan was also a moderate? It sounds as though a further lurch to the right will solve the Republican Party's problems. Santorum/Palin for 2016, perhaps? When Mr Santorum has abolished the schools, the kids can play with real guns all day long; that's character-building.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by fleetwood77 View Post
I got 88% correct in the Citizen Test - and I wouldn't visit the USA, let alone become a citizen.
According to the latest polls, 99% of Americans don't want you. However, there is a gentleman who goes by "Buffalo Bill" that would love to have you visit. He says that he will provide you with a place to stay and plenty of lotion.



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Originally Posted by scoundrel View Post
Mr Romney was a moderate? Presumably Mr Ryan was also a moderate? It sounds as though a further lurch to the right will solve the Republican Party's problems. Santorum/Palin for 2016, perhaps? When Mr Santorum has abolished the schools, the kids can play with real guns all day long; that's character-building.
If you follow Right Wing/Conservative politics and pundits then yes, Romney and Ryan are pretty moderate.

I think that Palin is a spent force right now. She is going to have to do a lot of very hard work to get herself back into a position of power and importance.

Santorum is clearly setting himself up to run again for 2016. However he will not be alone.

Senator Rand Paul is setting himself up for a run in 2016. He is the son of Ron Paul that ran in 2012. Wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Paul
Rand Paul is a christian conservative/libertarian. He has many of the same negatives that Santorum does. Mainly making wildy irrational statments, obstructing anybody that is trying to get work done, and rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.

Another is the current Governor of Virginia, Bob McDonnell. Wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_McDonnell
This is a man to watch out for. He is another christian conservative but doesn't carry many of the negatives of Santorum and Paul. He is handsome, pertly coiffed, has a lovely family, is a great public speaker, and tends to not make stupid statments that will get him ridiculed.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:21 PM   #15
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blueballsdc,

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Originally Posted by blueballsdc View Post
Another is the current Governor of Virginia, Bob McDonnell. Wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_McDonnell
This is a man to watch out for. He is another christian conservative but doesn't carry many of the negatives of Santorum and Paul. He is handsome, pertly coiffed, has a lovely family, is a great public speaker, and tends to not make stupid statments that will get him ridiculed.
Think I'll have to disagree here a bit. Gov. Ultrasound (McDonnell) has really ticked off a lot of women in Virginia with his abortion stances. Remember last year when he wanted to require all women wanting an abortion to first have a vaginal ultrasound prior to the abortion? He only changed his mind (very grudgingly) when it was pointed out to him that this could be considered as rape! Even with that argument he still wanted to go ahead with the law.

Rachel Maddow had a field day with Gov. Ultrasound:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/20...nd-probes?lite

I think he'll have real problems with the female vote and don't think he'll have much of a chance.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by 9876543210 View Post
blueballsdc,



Think I'll have to disagree here a bit. Gov. Ultrasound (McDonnell) has really ticked off a lot of women in Virginia with his abortion stances. Remember last year when he wanted to require all women wanting an abortion to first have a vaginal ultrasound prior to the abortion? He only changed his mind (very grudgingly) when it was pointed out to him that this could be considered as rape! Even with that argument he still wanted to go ahead with the law.

Rachel Maddow had a field day with Gov. Ultrasound:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/20...nd-probes?lite

I think he'll have real problems with the female vote and don't think he'll have much of a chance.
The issue the present Republican Party is up against is that it has been taken into the control of people whose core values are religious, and socially conservative; but they need to attract electoral support from a more independent-minded population. Americans hate being told what to do and how to live their lives; British history shows this. At present, it is the Republicans who seem to be the bossy-boots party. No abortion! No contraception! I'm going to stick a surcharge on your pizza because you dared to support Obamacare!

It's a bit UnAmerican, I would have said.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 9876543210 View Post
Think I'll have to disagree here a bit. Gov. Ultrasound (McDonnell) has really ticked off a lot of women in Virginia with his abortion stances. Remember last year when he wanted to require all women wanting an abortion to first have a vaginal ultrasound prior to the abortion? He only changed his mind (very grudgingly) when it was pointed out to him that this could be considered as rape! Even with that argument he still wanted to go ahead with the law.

Rachel Maddow had a field day with Gov. Ultrasound:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/20...nd-probes?lite

I think he'll have real problems with the female vote and don't think he'll have much of a chance.
My friend, you forget that people have very short memories. His views were well known before the election (along with Ken Cuccinelli who is even worse) yet lots of women voted for him for governor. A lot of women supported him through the ultrasound nonsense and continue to support him now. If he spends the next couple of years campaigning, as I believe he will, people will forget (or ignore) what he has said and done before.

Of course, a lot will depend upon who else decides to run. I expect Rick Perry will throw his hat in the ring again (and probably miss) along with Paul Ryan. Marco Rubio is clearly being groomed for bigger and better things, although he may choose to wait a few years longer. I also have a sneaking suspicion that Ted Cruz may try his hand at a presidential campaign.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:25 PM   #18
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scoundrel,

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Originally Posted by scoundrel View Post
The issue the present Republican Party is up against is that it has been taken into the control of people whose core values are religious, and socially conservative; but they need to attract electoral support from a more independent-minded population.
Which brings up a question which I've been ruminating over for a little while now (and should maybe be its own thread). Is the Republican party dead or dying?

As I look around it seems to me they're on the edge of death. They're losing constituencies left and right to the point where the only reliable voting block they have are old white men and the Southern US.

They only had about 8% of the black vote in the last election.
About 27% of the latino vote.
About 45% of the women's vote.

The Republicans seem to be divided into two camps. The "middle" of the party which is almost nonexistent and disappearing quickly as they keep being "primaried" by their extreme right wing.

And then their extreme right wing which has no chance of winning a general election. Does anybody really think Rand Paul or Rick Santorum could get elected without stealing the election?

My guess is the Republicans will have to split. The moderates will have to either become Democrats or Independents (probably taking about half of the Republican party with them). The extreme right will hang around for a while (or maybe try and start a civil war when they realize they've been marginalized) but, as with all such movements, will eventually die out.

So the next few years will be interesting. I thought maybe they'd have a brief period of introspection when Bobby Jindahl told them they'd have to "quit being the stupid party" but its now obvious nobody listened to him. And the party's blind devotion to the gun manufacturers is probably going to cost them big time in the next election.

So, are the Republicans history?

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Old 02-03-2013, 12:42 AM   #19
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About twenty years ago, the British Labour Party appeared to have painted itself into a similar corner. In Britain, the electorate had moved seismically away from socialism and left of centre beliefs towards economic liberalism and somewhat more militaristic principles. Many social attitudes were affected by the record of the Labour Party in office, when Britain was so badly misgoverned in the 1970s that the authority of the state was undermined; and by their pivotal decision in 1982 as Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, to withold support from the operation to retake the Falkland Islands from the invading Argentinians using force. That went down like a shit sandwich.

By 1992, Labour had collected two decisive election defeats and in 1992 it collected a third. It went into each campaign believing that the people needed and wanted a socialist-inclined alternative government. Each time they got beat, they merely concluded that they must try harder, that one last heave would do it. When they won in 1997, it was because they stopped relying on mere effort and listened to what voters were saying. Voters weren't voting Conservative because they liked the Tories. My own dad, who voted Tory every time, thought the Tories were upper-class pricks and said so, to the face of every Tory canvasser. He told Wilf Proudfoot MP, to his face, that his party was a bag of arse. But my dad voted in the national interest as near as he could figure out what that was; and that meant keeping Labour out, simply because Labour were incompetent. In 1997, people were so sick of the Tories it was like an emetic just to think of them (even my father admitted that); and finally, by abolishing the hardline socialist clause 4 of the Labour Party constitution, the Labour Party had undertaken to respect capitalism and the mixed economy instead of nationalising the means of production, distribution and exchange. That was the thing which was undoing the Labour Party; it had wanted to micro-manage the economic life of Britain, even though it caused the collapse of the British economy in the 1970s by doing exactly that. To make itself electable, it had to show that it realised it had ruined the whole country last time and wouldn't simply dose the country with the same prescription again.

That's the challenge for the US Republicans now. Will they admit, even to themselves, that they misgoverned America so badly that the voters are actively afraid to allow them to govern again? Or will they continue to offer the medicine as before and tell themselves that next time they must try harder to sell the same old neo-liberal economic policies allied to tax cuts for the rich and spurious foreign wars, paid for by borrowing which future generations will need to repay? Will they continue to peddle social conservatism, guns, God, no abortion and knee-jerk reactionary little-America grand standing on issues such as immigration and citizenship? A lot of natural Republican bedrock supporters are very unhappy with these positions; many people who voted for Nixon and even Reagan feel like they don't recognise their own party any more. Many of the "Latino" community (I hate labels, but this one is an approximation which most people,"Latino" and non-"Latino", understand) were alienated by Republican immigration policies, but this didn't mean they were in favour of a free-for-all. They were in favour of rational immigration control policies and wanted an open discussion of what these policies ought to be. The Republicans weren't offering this; and a community which has staunch conservative values, has more than the national average of self-employed small business owners, a higher than national average rate of church attendance, voted 27% Republican. The Republicans have lost touch with their own natural constituencies.

One way to save the Republican movement (and actually I think US Democrats should want to save the Republican movement in the interests of plural democracy) would be to make it illegal for God botherers to run for office. Anyone who is a self-professed clergyman (eg the Reverend Pat Robertson) should be disqualified from public office, even as a dog catcher. Any church which donates to any political cause should lose its tax-exemption and be forced to render unto Caesar. These measures would weaken the sclerotic grip of God-botherers on the Republican movement and make it easier for electable candidates to get past the primaries. Romney and Ryan was an extremely socially conservative ticket and went down badly with the voters for precisely that reason; but Romney had a titanic struggle to get selected by Republican party members at grass roots level, who seriously contemplated selecting Rick Santorum. Until it reaches a stage where a candidate like Rick Santorum would be laughed at by the Republican grass roots, the Republican Party will struggle to reach out beyond its own grass roots and appeal to voters who have moderate conservative beliefs.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:32 AM   #20
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The Republican Party has learned nothing from their losses and has no intention of making changes. Instead they want to rig the "game", breaking the current way of electing the US President.

http://news.msn.com/politics/gop-eye...-dems-are-wary

For those of you who don't know how we (the US) does it, the President here is not elected directly by the popular vote. Instead each state has a number of Electoral College delegates equal to the number of Senators and Representatives the state has. So whichever candidate wins the popular vote in a given state "wins" all of that state's Electoral College delegates. Then whoever wins a majority in the Electoral College wins the election. This tends to mirror the popular vote but theoretically can vary from it.

What the Republicans are proposing to do is change this, but only in states where they control the state government and Obama won the Presidential vote. Instead, again ONLY IN THOSE PARTICULAR STATES, they want the Electoral College delegates to be assigned by the vote of individual districts.

Basically, in states where they won the Presidential vote they want to keep the system as is but in states they lost they want to rig it so as to guarantee they get some of the votes and the Democrats can't get them all. Its a fairly blatant attempt to rig the next election.
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