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View Poll Results: Leave The EU or stay in The EU?
Leave The EU. 328 54.76%
Stay in The EU. 231 38.56%
I don't care either way/won't be voting. 27 4.51%
I'd rather not say. 13 2.17%
Voters: 599. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-10-2018, 10:23 AM   #3911
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To all the Soros funded acolytes.

Now even MORE Britons want to leave the EU - an increase of nearly 15% since the Brexit referendum, survey claims.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ey-claims.html
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:45 AM   #3912
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Originally Posted by Oswald View Post
To all the Soros funded acolytes.

Now even MORE Britons want to leave the EU - an increase of nearly 15% since the Brexit referendum, survey claims.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ey-claims.html

Hmm... seems that Soros forgot about me then....where's my fat cheque?

Seriously, joking aside, you can't take the Daily Mail seriously, can you? Back in the day, I remember my local chippy used to buy it in bulk to wrap the fish & chips in it.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:50 AM   #3913
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Just 3 minutes ago from one of the commentators on the a.m. site who apparently knows about the (non-)seriousness of Daily Mail:

Quote:
BleedingObvious, London, United Kingdom, 3 minutes ago @ DailyMail

"Their data was collected between June and October 2016, before all the lies were exposed. Try again, DM."

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Old 07-10-2018, 10:51 AM   #3914
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Originally Posted by Oswald View Post
To all the Soros funded acolytes.

Now even MORE Britons want to leave the EU - an increase of nearly 15% since the Brexit referendum, survey claims.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ey-claims.html
The study said 36 per cent of interviewees wanted to leave the EU, up from 22 per cent in 2015.

Only 36%? So 64% don't.

Trump level of approval, Trump-like spin of the facts and conspiracy theories.

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Old 07-10-2018, 08:40 PM   #3915
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Originally Posted by vinceprince View Post
The study said 36 per cent of interviewees wanted to leave the EU, up from 22 per cent in 2015.

Only 36%? So 64% don't.

Trump level of approval, Trump-like spin of the facts and conspiracy theories.
As Benjamin Disraeli is alleged to have said:
Quote:
There are lies; ther are damned lies; and there are statistics.
Or as Thomas Grunday prefaced a biographical article about Walter Duranty :
Quote:
There are liars; there are damned liars; and then there are journalists.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:59 PM   #3916
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Originally Posted by VintageWomble View Post
Scoundrel, as much as I admire and back your taste in vintage pornography, I'm afraid I must disagree with you on this. (You do seem like you'd be good fun/conversation over a few down at the local!).

The fiasco that was the Brexit referendum of June 23rd 2016 was a non binding one from the onset, because of one major characteristic of the democratic system of this country, and that has been inherently part of our traditions since Charles I : the sovereignty of Parliament.

This is inherent to the British "Rule of Law" that (should-but in some cases doesn't) govern our Nation.( If you want to learn more about that, my daughter's boyfriend introduced me to a youtube channel called Count Dankula, he raises a fair few good points in a video entitled "The Actual State of the UK") but I digress...


The way our Nation's political system works is based in part on a millenium of history, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that's what people who voted for Brexit wanted? To "preserve Britain's History"?
Of course, a lot of the present difficulty arises because there were no details underpinning the Leave question in the June 2016 referendum, so the only proven fact is that there was a small but unmistakable majority of voters who voted to leave the EU. I suspect the script said that we would vote to Remain, thus making eventual integration into an ever closer Union almost a done deal. The reality is that the voters chose against the EU.

In a parliamentary democracy, the people elect the executive and the legislature; which is the basis of parliament being sovereign. We once chopped a man's head off to punish him for thinking he had a divine right to boss British people around, ignore their wishes and deny then their rights. King Charles I thought his authority came from God; but the event proved that it came from the consent of his people. This still remains the basis of authority in the UK - the consent of the governed. So when Parliament thinks a referendum on a constitutional issue can possibly be "non-binding", they are forgetting where their own authority comes from.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:18 AM   #3917
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In a parliamentary democracy, the people elect the executive and the legislature; which is the basis of parliament being sovereign. We once chopped a man's head off to punish him for thinking he had a divine right to boss British people around, ignore their wishes and deny then their rights. King Charles I thought his authority came from God; but the event proved that it came from the consent of his people. This still remains the basis of authority in the UK - the consent of the governed. So when Parliament thinks a referendum on a constitutional issue can possibly be "non-binding", they are forgetting where their own authority comes from.
The civil war was not a choice between 'the People's authority' or 'God's' it was about a 'Catholic God's' or 'Puritans God's'.

The King's executioners were later tried and executed for treason and Cromwell was dug up and head stuck on a spike outside Westminster as a warning to others.

In 1660, Charles II was restored to the throne and continued, as his father had done, trying to rule without Parliament. (as did Cromwell)

The thing that kept stopped Kings power was the fear of being politically or militarily replaced like James ll The Dutch Invasion of 1688 permanently established a 'constitutional monarchy', which is a 'king-controlled-by-parliament'. It was the turning point in England's government not the civil war. The king remained influential, but Parliament made the laws.

Legally the referendum is non-binding because that's what the legislation said it was unlike the AV referendum. The Supreme Court fully upheld this.
If you think politicians lied by failing to mention this, then well, join the long queue.

As any lawyer/policeman/taxman will tell you 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'. It's all just political argument.

Democracy and the 'will of the people' didn't end immediately after one advisory referendum it continues and changes.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:51 AM   #3918
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Originally Posted by VintageWomble View Post
Count Dankula, he raises a fair few good points in a video entitled "The Actual State of the UK"?
Why does he speak a so horrible English ?

Edit: That's weird to watch guys fighting with machettes in the street !
Are they Brexiters ?
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:22 PM   #3919
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Originally Posted by vinceprince View Post
The civil war was not a choice between 'the People's authority' or 'God's' it was about a 'Catholic God's' or 'Puritans God's'.

The King's executioners were later tried and executed for treason and Cromwell was dug up and head stuck on a spike outside Westminster as a warning to others.

In 1660, Charles II was restored to the throne and continued, as his father had done, trying to rule without Parliament. (as did Cromwell)
Sir Thomas Fairfax knew Cromwell rather well and didn't like him very much, but fell out with Charles II and his more extreme supporters over the exhumation of Cromwell, for fairly obvious reasons. As I remember it, some of those who signed the death warrant went into exile. including 3 who went to America. Quite a few others were imprisoned - not all were executed. But without a doubt King Charles II had a serious sense of humour failure, not usual in his generally laid back ruling style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinceprince View Post
The thing that kept stopped Kings power was the fear of being politically or militarily replaced like James ll The Dutch Invasion of 1688 permanently established a 'constitutional monarchy', which is a 'king-controlled-by-parliament'. It was the turning point in England's government not the civil war. The king remained influential, but Parliament made the laws.
The experience of exile made King Charles II more pragmatic and cautious than his father. He used to openly comment that he did not want to go on his travels again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinceprince View Post
Legally the referendum is non-binding because that's what the legislation said it was unlike the AV referendum. The Supreme Court fully upheld this.
If you think politicians lied by failing to mention this, then well, join the long queue.
On the one hand there is the letter of the law. On the other hand there is political reality. If you hold a referendum on membership of the EU and the Leave side wins, you ignore and slight the Leave vote at your peril. You will not do that and nothing happens. It is at the best a spring for widespread civil disobedience - and that is the best case scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinceprince View Post
As any lawyer/policeman/taxman will tell you 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'. It's all just political argument.
It was not, in the notorious phrase of Kenneth Clarke MP, a glorified opinion poll.

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Originally Posted by vinceprince View Post
Democracy and the 'will of the people' didn't end immediately after one advisory referendum it continues and changes.
In other words, the referendum didn't mean shit and we can ignore it and do as we please. If you think that will fly, you might be in for a very nasty surprise. People are not going to react well to being treated with contempt by their "betters"; no indeed.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:47 AM   #3920
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In other words, the referendum didn't mean shit and we can ignore it and do as we please. If you think that will fly, you might be in for a very nasty surprise. People are not going to react well to being treated with contempt by their "betters"; no indeed.
It happens all the time - Nearly all the Tory election Manifesto was dumped immediately after the election like many others in the past. Promises forgotten and dumped. Can't see any protests or civil unrest, nothing.
All that happens is that people get more cynical about politicians and what they say.

I suppose millions can march like they did against the Iraq War, that did a lot of good.

Regarding civil unrest, I don't think anyone takes that seriously especially looking at the demographics of the average leave voter, even if they really care that much and can be bothered I don't fancy their chances much.

In my experience in the real world for most, (unlike those who post about it obsessively on internet forums) leave or remain the overriding feeling about Brexit is now that of confusion, boredom and resignation rather than any revolutionary fervor.

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