The Military History Thread

[rupertramjet]

Originally Posted by DTravel

You don't want to do that, he'll collectivize your medical system!

If he got it working properly we would welcome it!

[Ennath]

Collective the medical system, huh? Then we, too, can have a few thousand patients starve to death because no one could be bothered to feed them.

[Ennath]

During the Franco-Prussian War, Friedrich Engels, already famous as Marx’s partner as a founder of international communism, raised money for the German cause.

From 1794 through 1796, having backed the wrong faction in Revolutionary politics, during “The Terror” in France, Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord, a former priest who was one of history’s most slippery diplomats, surviving numerous changes of regime between 1789 and 1834, resided in the United States, where he reportedly made £50,000 in crooked land deals, perhaps $75 million today.

When the Austrian Chancellery proposed conscripting Jewish men to help resolve a manpower shortage during the Austro-Turkish War of 1788-1792, the Supreme War Council acquiesced with great reluctance, declaring that the army already had too many problems on its hands.

In 1792, the women of the famed “Les Halles” market, in the Faubourg St. Antoine, in Paris, armed themselves with pikes, and proceeded to drill in case they were called upon to defend the Revolution, calling themselves the “Brigade de Amazonie – Amazon Brigade”.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Ennath

Collective the medical system, huh? Then we, too, can have a few thousand patients starve to death because no one could be bothered to feed them.

No disrespect intended, Ennath, but I'll keep my state medical care system and let you hold on to your private one. On the few occasions when I've needed to go to hospital, I've been very decently treated, both in terms of medical treatment and in terms of being treated like a human being. I am well aware of the case to which you are referring. Malpractice and negligence is rife in Britain, but also in the USA, where between 5% and 10% of all medical spending is devoted to legal and settlement costs. There's no perfect system in a world which contains people.

Just to maintain relevence, the USA created the Mobile Army Surgical Hospital just at the bitter end of WW2, but it's first great showing was in the Korean War; the initial outing in August 1945 had lasted long enough to reveal flaws in the concept which were addressed before the Korean War started. If you reached a MASH unit still alive, you had a 97% chance of survival; that is an astonishing statistic, given how horribly some of the casualties suffered.

In WW2, the US Army had improved survival chances by teaching first aid to many ordinary GIs and issuing millions of sulfanilamide dressings to GIs who could use them without needing to read the instructions. Battalion Aid Stations had proper doctors and nurses and better equipment than in WW1; so first response was much better than in the past. But the weak link was getting the men to a proper hospital. Field and General Hospitals, with their unwieldy equipment, were too far away and men were dying on ambulances. The MASH concept was to design a field hospital which could bug out in minutes if the enemy broke the line, so that it could be much closer to where the casualties were. In the Korean War, medivac helicopters were available for the first time and the worst cases could be whisked from Battalion Aid to the MASH in a matter of minutes, and that was a priceless innovation. Unlike the fictional 4077th, a real MASH usually had ten doctors with a nursing team for each one; one MASH once successfully treated over 600 casulties in less than 24 hours, which I make to be the thick end of three operations per doctor per hour for nearly 24 hours.

In October 1952, one of the worst ever railway disasters in British history took place when the Perth to Euston express missed three signals in dense fog and collided at full speed with the Tring to Euston commuter train on the platform of Harrow and Wealdstone station. A few minutes later, missing the same signals due to the fog, the Manchester to Euston express slammed into the back of the Perth train at maximun speed. 112 people did and 342 were severely injured. Even though the first ambulances arrived three minutes after the collision occurred, sheer good luck that they were nearby and actually heard the horrendous impacts through the fog and guessed right that it was a train smash and a bad 'un, the heroes of the first minutes were a USAF medical team with Korean War experienced men, who somehow walked off the Perth train unhurt, just before the Manchester train took out the last eight carraiges. These men set up an aid station on the platform and implemented a triage sorting system, filtering the worst cases to the ambulances first and getting them the most urgent attention. They were returning to their unit, the 494th USAF Hospital at South Ruislip, next door to RAF Northolt, only three miles away; they persuaded the police to let them phone their superiors, and in less than thirty minutes 8 more USAF doctors, plus one nurse were on site, and many of the wounded were being diverted to the 494th, thanks to a conversation between Lt Colonel Weideman, the CO and chief surgeon, and the police inspector on the ground at the scene of the accident. Other doctors appeared, including all the GPs from the local high street and several RAF doctors from Northolt; and hundreds of local residents turned out to display first aid skills they remembered from the Blitz.

It was a first class humanitarian effort which helped to confirm the new Anglo-American friendship; when the part played by the Americans was reported in the news, no US airman stationed in the UK had to pay for a drink in any British pub for many days afterwards. More lastingly, the British NHS doctors and ambulance paramedics were astonished by the skill and efficiency shown by the men of the 494th and it led to a root and branch review of major incident planning and procedures which is still saving lives in Britain today. The NHS doctors and nurses were dumbfounded by how much better the Yanks were at coping with carnage on such a scale and they weren't too proud to say so and learn from it.

[rustler]

Heinrich Himmler, with his love of mysticism and chivalry for his new SS order, decreed on December 9th 1935 that, "Every SS. man, has the right and duty to defend his honour by arms." He reintroduced duelling into the SS!
With prior consent given by the Reichsführer SS., every memebr of the Black Order was authorised to demand satisfaction, on condition that his opponent was also a member of the SS.
Evidently a number of members did exercise this right.

What I haven't been able to find out, is by what means.......

[palo5]

Originally Posted by tygrkhat40

...In fact, didn't we fund the opposition to the Russians, which came back to bite us in the ass?

Some of them, yes. But obviously not the Taliban, who didn't exist until later

[rupertramjet]

How incredibly this contrasts t the reaction of the Motorway Police after the crash of British Midland Flight 092, in January 1989. first on the scene where a group of Special Forces Troop Medics, who had just completed their course.

The Police ordered them out of the way, and it wasn't until the direct intervention of the Ambulance Officer, that a group of the highest trained casualty medics in the world where allowed to carry on with the help.

They are trained in NHS Hospitals, for which a large fee is paid! One of them was subsequently decorated.

[rupertramjet]

Originally Posted by palo5

Some of them, yes. But obviously not the Taliban, who didn't exist until later

Mujahedin Taliban, same bloke same turban!

[haroldeye]

At a resilience exercise in the last five years an ATO (Bomb disposal expert) arrived at the scene of a large bomb next to the petroleum side of an oil refinery. The police constable on duty wouldn't let him and his team in as it was a police matter and he (the constable) was in charge. The ATO had a phone which linked him to the COBR (Cabinet Office Briefing Room - the exercise controllers) and he complained directly to the top. Within seconds the constable had an invitation to visit the Chief Constable and the ATO and his team got on with organising the defusing of the bomb.

[rupertramjet]

It is with great delight that I wish Johnson Beharry VC and his new bride Mallisa much joy and happiness.

Johnson married fellow Grenadian Mellisa on Saturday.