Formula 1 - Page 375

**Motorboater** · October 13th, 2018, 11:12 PM

Teams normally employ the best drivers? I remember Hamilton's first contract was a speculative one.

Where else does Hamilton get favoured due to pressure from sponsors and shareholders? When team orders are as blatant as that, it completely diminishes whatever he accomplishes.

GraemeAU50 · October 14th, 2018, 08:21 PM

So with George Russell announced at Williams looks like Ocon will take his place as reserve/test driver for Mercedes next year and hopefully get back into a seat for 2020

But with Toto Wolff's heaping of praise on Mick Schumacher recently one wonders if Ocon is going to find himself in the same situation as Pascal Werlhein and finding when the music stops there's no seat left for him in future seasons despite his contract with Mercedes

stockingclad · October 15th, 2018, 01:43 PM

With the dominance of Red Bull for four years and now Mercedes, it can become a lot less interesting.
Yes, Lewis is driving really well, but just how well? He would still win the championship driving at 98% of his ability, and probably because of that, he is not always under pressure.
It is hard to know if Bottas would be a serious contender.
It is obvious to me that both Mercedes and Red Bull have generally favoured one driver.

Now, I have no doubt whatsoever that Hamilton is one of the best drivers, but like Vettel, he has the luxury of influencing who partners him.

**Adam West** · October 16th, 2018, 01:56 AM

I think Lewis will continue to dominate, however you're going to soon see a changing of the guard so to speak. Verstappen and Leclerc will be winning more races and something's up at Renault otherwise you wouldn't be seeing Daniel Ricciardo going there.

Next year things will be interesting.

**pharoahegypt** · October 16th, 2018, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockingclad

It is hard to know if Bottas would be a serious contender.
.

In my opinion, not! Unlike when Hamilton had Rosberg alongside him, Bottas is failing to gain as many podiums respectively. When Hamilton had a crash or technical issue which meant he fell out the race or down the field, Rosberg was more often on the top step claiming a victory; hence how he managed to win a drivers title himself. I just don't see Bottas doing the same if Hamilton was to have similar issues through next season?

**flake56** · October 16th, 2018, 01:31 PM

might it be more a fact that Mercedes uses him to run flak for lewis than anything else. Toto does not see him as anything but an outrider to lewis. certainly will never let him or any other driver be a threat. things have changed since Rosberg at Mercedes and that is lewis wins no matter what it takes to make that happen. if need be, they would have bottas stop on the track to let lewis by. he will never get the chance Rosburg did.

**pharoahegypt** · October 16th, 2018, 05:55 PM

I'd agree with that to a point; but the couple of times Hamilton has been out Bottas hasn't capitalised on his chances, even letting the Ferrari or RBRs pass him without putting up much of a fight.

**Adam West** · October 17th, 2018, 02:22 AM

Bottas had Azerbaijan won, but a punctured tire took him out. And he was faster than Lewis, but had to let him go by at Russia. That's two potential wins.

**Roger Allott** · October 17th, 2018, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam West

Bottas had Azerbaijan won, but a punctured tire took him out. And he was faster than Lewis, but had to let him go by at Russia. That's two potential wins.

If Bottas hadn't suffered the unfortunate blowout in Azerbaijan, he would have been leading the WDC after it by 1 point from Vettel and 2 points from Hamilton. It's impossible to say whether the confidence boost he would have got from that would have seen him perform better in subsequent races, but I suspect he wouldn't have had the dip in form we've witnessed.

Including the flip of positions in Russia, Bottas 'should' be on 239 points, Vettel on 262 and Hamilton on 317. Closer than it is in reality, but still pretty clear.

But then again, we can all play 'if' games. Vettel has lost far more points than either of the Merc boys as a result of being the one spinning off or getting damage when moves have been a bit too aggressive.

.

**Motorboater** · October 18th, 2018, 04:38 AM

Bottas is at the effect of the circumstances he's in. He wasn't hired at MB to lead the team to WC wins, he's there because he's ******* good, the opportunity was there to get him, and he should be grateful to have an opportunity he otherwise would never have got.

He's like a world class football player. Having a career where he's won numerous player of the month/season awards, scored goals, captain of his country, and then gets signed by Real Madrid or Barcelona...to sit on the bench.

October 16th, 2018, 01:31 PM	#3746
flake56 Former Staff Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: deep swamp Posts: 1,323 Thanks: 36,682 Thanked 9,963 Times in 1,246 Posts	bottas might it be more a fact that Mercedes uses him to run flak for lewis than anything else. Toto does not see him as anything but an outrider to lewis. certainly will never let him or any other driver be a threat. things have changed since Rosberg at Mercedes and that is lewis wins no matter what it takes to make that happen. if need be, they would have bottas stop on the track to let lewis by. he will never get the chance Rosburg did.

October 16th, 2018, 05:55 PM	#3747
pharoahegypt Vintage Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Middle England Posts: 4,491 Thanks: 10,176 Thanked 43,618 Times in 4,154 Posts	I'd agree with that to a point; but the couple of times Hamilton has been out Bottas hasn't capitalised on his chances, even letting the Ferrari or RBRs pass him without putting up much of a fight. __________________ Arguing with a intelligent person is hard; but arguing with a stupid person is impossible!

October 13th, 2018, 11:12 PM	#3741
Motorboater Vintage Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 4,325 Thanks: 41,498 Thanked 38,251 Times in 4,299 Posts	Teams normally employ the best drivers? I remember Hamilton's first contract was a speculative one. Where else does Hamilton get favoured due to pressure from sponsors and shareholders? When team orders are as blatant as that, it completely diminishes whatever he accomplishes.

October 14th, 2018, 08:21 PM	#3742
GraemeAU50 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 111 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 1,177 Times in 109 Posts	So with George Russell announced at Williams looks like Ocon will take his place as reserve/test driver for Mercedes next year and hopefully get back into a seat for 2020 But with Toto Wolff's heaping of praise on Mick Schumacher recently one wonders if Ocon is going to find himself in the same situation as Pascal Werlhein and finding when the music stops there's no seat left for him in future seasons despite his contract with Mercedes

October 15th, 2018, 01:43 PM	#3743
stockingclad Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: U K Posts: 206 Thanks: 1,725 Thanked 1,450 Times in 187 Posts	With the dominance of Red Bull for four years and now Mercedes, it can become a lot less interesting. Yes, Lewis is driving really well, but just how well? He would still win the championship driving at 98% of his ability, and probably because of that, he is not always under pressure. It is hard to know if Bottas would be a serious contender. It is obvious to me that both Mercedes and Red Bull have generally favoured one driver. Now, I have no doubt whatsoever that Hamilton is one of the best drivers, but like Vettel, he has the luxury of influencing who partners him.

October 16th, 2018, 01:56 AM	#3744
Adam West Vintage Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Indianapolis - The Racing Capitol of the World Posts: 650 Thanks: 8,517 Thanked 6,205 Times in 635 Posts	I think Lewis will continue to dominate, however you're going to soon see a changing of the guard so to speak. Verstappen and Leclerc will be winning more races and something's up at Renault otherwise you wouldn't be seeing Daniel Ricciardo going there. Next year things will be interesting.

October 17th, 2018, 02:22 AM	#3748
Adam West Vintage Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Indianapolis - The Racing Capitol of the World Posts: 650 Thanks: 8,517 Thanked 6,205 Times in 635 Posts	Bottas had Azerbaijan won, but a punctured tire took him out. And he was faster than Lewis, but had to let him go by at Russia. That's two potential wins.

October 18th, 2018, 04:38 AM	#3750
Motorboater Vintage Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 4,325 Thanks: 41,498 Thanked 38,251 Times in 4,299 Posts	Bottas is at the effect of the circumstances he's in. He wasn't hired at MB to lead the team to WC wins, he's there because he's ******* good, the opportunity was there to get him, and he should be grateful to have an opportunity he otherwise would never have got. He's like a world class football player. Having a career where he's won numerous player of the month/season awards, scored goals, captain of his country, and then gets signed by Real Madrid or Barcelona...to sit on the bench.