The Military History Thread

[Ennath]

The Pretenders (Old and Young) saw Scotland only as a means to ruling in England. They had no interest in a throne in Edinburgh. Once the invasion of England failed (and in the absence of English Jacobite support, that was inevitable), the whole enterprise lost direction. Those who still see them as champions of Scottish liberty are hopeless romantics.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

Scoundrel,

I think you'll find that there were more Scots on the Government side of Culloden Moor than on the Jacobite side.

The clearances were inevitable just as the enclosures in England were. If a man owned a thousand acres and could make ten times more money from those acres by farming sheep rather than tenanted farms then logic stated clear. Not very pleasant especially if like some of my ancestors you were the ones dispossessed but this sort of thing could and is still happening today. The by product of the clearances was a large Scots presence in what are now the Dominiums and the Scots dedication to running the British Empire.

Oh and don't think that any system set up by the Pretender would be any better than what happened. He was supported by the French kings and look what they did to their own people.

I am aware that the Jacobite rebellion of 1745-6 was a Scottish civil war. It was also the last hurrah of the Clan chieftans, who used their tenants and the tenants labourers as private armies in the ancient feudal manner. When this was no longer possible, the man concerned ceased to be an asset and became a liability and it was then that the highland clearances began in earnest, a process which went unchecked until the First World War and which created the vast empty wilderness which now replaces communities which have ceased to exist.

I have no time for the Stuarts, or the Jacobites. The Stuarts were nearly all rotten kings. James VI (and I) in the 16th Century attempted to dispossess the native islanders of Lewis, selling their land to some bad hats from Fife and instructing said bad hats to impose Lowland Scottish rule, forbid the Gaelic language and seize the land being farmed by people who had held it for centuries. James did not mince words, telling the Fife land grabbers to impose their will using "slauchter, mutilation, fyre-raising, or utheris inconvenieties". So much for the true born kings of Scotland, eh?

[Puhbear69]

The first Republic (1902-1958)

Fulgencio Batista

in 1902 the first Republic was proclaimed in Cuba Tomás Estrada Palma with President at the top. After 1906 the election to Palmas successor armed uprisings, the United States exercised their right to intervene and occupied Cuba again for three years. in 1908, the occupation ended with the election of José Miguel Gómez to 2 Presidents of Cuba. 1917 entered Cuba with the United States in the first world war . In the post-war period, it came through sugar exports to Europe to a boom of the Cuban economy. This led to a monoculture in the agricultural sector and conditional the dramatic effects of the great depression of 1929 on the Cuban economy, in addition to political mismanagement and influence by the United States. The Communist Party of Cuba (PCC) was formed as a result of discontent with the economic situation of the Cuban people.

During the following years, the Fulgencio Batista government supported by the United States gained influence. With its help, Federico Laredo Brú came to power, which abolished the Platt Amendment in addition to other reforms. This was Franklin D. Roosevelt agreed with the United States during the Good Neighbour Policy under President.

From 1940-1944, Batista was himself President and coup in 1952 again to power. December 1941 entered Cuba on the side of the United States in the Second World War , even if actual military commitment of Cuba within limits considered. Cuba once again economically benefited and received financial aid for social and agricultural programs. So the US Congress agreed to, for example, in 1948 the sugar Act , which provided for a share of over 98% of the country's supply of sugar for imports from Cuba. The law was in 1952 and 1956 to each four more years extended.

1952, by a presidential campaign in Cuba the CIA (this time with an active support of the US- Mafia [see Meyer Lansky]) discovered him back as an sympathic mid-aged man for supporting for US issues again. So he shit on the campaigns and putsches to power. During Batista ruthless and brutal dictatorship, the country appeared as the whorehouse of the US and an US-Mafia "retirement", this ultimately led to a popular uprising, the Cuban revolution.

Fidel Castro

Because of the war between the supporters of Batista and Fidel Castro , the United States expose an arms embargo on Cuba in March 1958. A ban on the sale of arms to the supporters of Batista (generous bypassed by the Mafia) - previously common practice was also issued in April. In the course of the Cuban revolution the United States deprived Batista so the confidence and that for him no longer to control uprisings finally forced him into exile. On January 1, 1959, the revolutionaries under the leadership of Castro's finally captured Havana and took over the Government. No US hostility was formed until then from Castro's numerous public statements. A historical letter he had written in June 1958 from the Sierra Maestra to his confidante Celia Sanchez, was however only much later publicly. On US-produced rockets case taking, which had thrown the Batista forces on farmhouses, Castro wrote:
"When I saw the rockets, which have destroyed the House of Mario, I have I sworn, that North Americans will pay dearly for that, what they do here." When this war is over, a new war, which will be longer and violent begins for me: the war I will do against them. "I know now that this is my real determination."

At first it looked like when the new Government and the United States would arrange themselves with each other. Although the United States feared an attack on the property of American businesses and citizens in Cuba. And so it came (no wonder!).
The escalation began in small increments. First, Castro turned a key promise of the revolution of the workers in the practice: the expropriation of the sugar industry and the distribution of the large plantations in sections of 25 hectares. The restoration of the Constitution of 1940 promised also since 1953 by Castro was not implemented however. In it the abolition of mining had already been foreseen, the expropriation should be compensated but (according to article 24) in appropriate and previous cash, which rejected Castro. Because of American companies were affected, the United States responded with a suspension of oil supplies to Cuba. To continue to be supplied with oil, Cuba recorded for the first time trade in February 1960 with the Soviet Union. American oil companies in Cuba refused to process Soviet oil. Until then, the US oil companies were expropriated. This was answered in June 1960 by the United States with an import blockade for Cuban sugar. In 1960 it was then for the nationalization of the entire company property of United States in Cuba. On the United States responded with an export embargo in October 1960 Cuba managed then to mitigate the extent of damage to its economy proposed by the trade embargo by the inclusion of trade relations with the Soviet Union. On January 3, 1961 Castro called on the US Government, to reduce the staff of its Embassy in Havana, Cuba, to nine people and Washington responded a day later by the severing of diplomatic relations.

The Bay of Pigs invasion
April 17, 1961

In the atmosphere of the cold war, the gunboat diplomacy as before the first world war was no longer possible, because international protest because of "Interference in the Affairs of a foreign State" would have may cause unpredictable geopolitical reactions especially in the third world .

The Government of Dwight D. Eisenhower left the CIA based on the models of Operation 1953 in Guatemala, 1954 in the Iran prepare a CIA-controlled coup. In the case of a help call of the Cuban Government in exile flown in from Florida Vice President would have can present itself Richard Nixon by a military strike as a presidential candidate. The preparations for the operation carried out apparently by Cuban exiles completed but no longer before the elections, the fall as Eisenhower's Nixon narrowly lost.

On February 17, 1961, Kennedy asked his advisers whether it could bring "the overthrow of Castro with arms in combination" . "It could be said that modern North and missiles that threatened America's security would be the actual target?". [2] The plan not lent itself but for the year 1961, since Cuba had only a few Soviet weapons at that time. The Cuban air force initially consisted Lockheed T-33A, which were later replaced by Soviet types of some bombers left in the Batista era of type Douglas B 26 c invader bomber-fighters of the type of Hawker Sea Fury FB 11, as well as Jet trainers of the type.

The only politically internationally acceptable option was that a Cuban opposition from Cuban territory asked the United States for support and thus paved the way for the US military to land in Cuba.

The CIA encouraged by the successes in 1953 in Iran and 1954 in Guatemala , which with minimal effort, the democratically elected Governments could be overthrown by covert operations, Cuban exile were trained in 1960 in Retalhuleu in Guatemala first in sabotage techniques , of which 40 secretly were shipped to Cuba, where they should build up resistance cells. No signs of life to hear more was already 48 hours after the start of operation 40 from the agents.

Also due to the fragmented opposition parties, the CIA recognized that a revolution from the inside was practically impossible, and eventually trained hundreds of exiles, the Brigade 2506 was later known as, for a large-scale invasion with U.S. support, which bore the code name operation Zapata .

The rest is already known, the invasion failed tremendously.


Consequences

Christmas 1962 1,113 prisoners could leave after negotiations between the Government and a lawyer appointed by the relatives of the prisoners in the United States. Through several donation campaigns, including the "Tractors for peace"Committee of Government Kennedy, could the Castro's ransom amounting to some 60 million dollars by providing agricultural machinery and much-needed medicines and baby food are met. Two participants in the invasion were free until 1986.

The CIA operative E. Howard Hunt led as Deputy Director for Plans (DDP) as Eduardo the exile community during the invasion. Prior to this invasion, Hunt had presented already the proposal to kill Fidel Castro . In addition, he was known as masterminds in the Watergate scandal after his CIA activities.

At the request of Cuba, addressed the General Assembly of the United Nations with the invasion and reminded all States in a statement, on April 21, 1961, of their commitment to resolve international conflicts by peaceful means. The Ambassador of the United States had denied any responsibility for the attack on Cuban accusations towards. [9]

It followed a primarily from Latin American countries outbound wave of sympathy for Cuba. In Mexico , about 15,000 people, and 8,000 in Montevideodemonstrated on 21 April. With the invasion Bay of pigs, the American action against not acceptable Government in Latin America was failed for the first time, making revolutionary movements were encouraged instead of discouraged as planned to be.

In addition, a discussion of the role of the secret services broke out in foreign policy . The responsibilities in the cold war moved in following increasingly to the Ministry of defense.

Extensive criticism of the CIA was Inspector General Layman Kirkpatrick 1961 in his CIA internal investigation at the self image of the CIA, its organizational structure and the concrete implementation of the company, among others. As human consequences were the CIA Director Allen Dulles, the Deputy Director Charles p. Cabell , and Deputy Director Richard Bissell released.

The issues around Cuba and the US had been led -nearly- into a full scale atomic war in October 1962.


To be continued....
Next: Operation AJAX

[Mal Hombre]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

I am aware that the Jacobite rebellion of 1745-6 was a Scottish civil war.

"Bonnie Prince Charlie" was urged by His Highland Chieftans not to try for London but make Himself King of Scotland instead,He of course ignored Their advice and ended His days as a drunken Wife beater...

[sydney1]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

"Bonnie Prince Charlie" was urged by His Highland Chieftans not to try for London but make Himself King of Scotland instead,He of course ignored Their advice and ended His days as a drunken Wife beater...

Well, talk about life imitating art. This could have been the script for Braveheart II Starring Mel (I hate Limey's, Jews, Blacks, faggots) Gibson. in a family film..

[Ennath]

A main reason that the Bay of Pigs landing failed was the last-minute tampering with the plans. The exiles were originally intended to go ashore just below the Escambray Mountains, where anti-Castro rebels had been active for over a year. The region was very dangerous for Castro forces. Kennedy, however, was obsessed with the need for deniability, so the landing site was changed to the sparsely populated Bay of Pigs area to the west. Few locals joined the exiles forces mainly because there were few locals present.

The need for deniability also cut short the expected air support that was supposed to cripple the Cuban Air Force. Although some planes were destroyed in the initial strike, enough remained to sink several ships, including those carrying a fair portion of the ammunition and medical supplies. Although the exiles fought for a few days and mauled the local militia brigade, they had little protection from air attack or tanks.

Later, the Escambray Mountains saw a major, if little reported abroad, rebellion from 1963 to 1966 (the so-called Camaguay Rebellion, though Camaguay itself lay to the east). Although the rebels received almost no foreign aid, they remained in the field, thanks in part to the bumbling generalship of Che Guevara.

Castro was not universally loved, as the large number of Cubans who fled the country can attest. (Quite a few here in New Jersey.) Despite claims for the economic achievement of the Castro regime, the country remains poor, while the rest of Latin America moved past them. (It's not just the US embargo either; Cuba does business with the rest of the world and receives generous aid from Hugo Chavez.) In 1958, the per capita income was on a par with parts of western Europe; it has hardly budged since. . Since 1958, infant mortality has actually increased. And brutal as the Batista regime was, it fell far short in that regard compared to what followed.

[Puhbear69]

Thank you 'Ennath', I've sightly different infos.

But of course, there are no bigger lies than in historical reports, any facts can be interpreted by each side. I know this well.

The Fall Down:
The Cubans were knowing the time and the place, where the invasion took place. That wasn't a tremendous work of their intelligence , that had been for the simple reason that exile Cubans in Miami were boasting with her participation.

Second and main reason was, that the Ex.Cu. couldn't hold the invaded territory long enough, to let the shortly before established exile government come in. Sense of the CIA plan has been, that they can do an emergency call from inside the country, to give the US-marine forces a reason intervene. This was political indispensable. Since that emergency call never happened (because they couldn't flew in) , Kennedy had to abort the invasion against the will of the CIA.

Contrary to the US-rumors Fidel Castro had a big back-hold in the Cuban population. As I wrote before:

the country appeared as the whorehouse of the US and an US-Mafia "retirement", this ultimately led to a popular uprising, the Cuban revolution.

if you can imagine of the dimension and impact that this had.
I would you suggest (GOOGLE it) to watch a report about Meyer Lansky and his colleagues, very informative and I think in English too (but I'm not sure). It was always denied until today, but the Kennedys had close links to the Mafia at that time.

And the Ex.Cu didn't helt the field, after three days they were finished, worn down and captured. 104, much less than 10 % were killed during the fights, all other were captured . At bombardments on Cuba was Napalm used. Two of the 16 US -B26 Bomber were shot down and the Pilots Thomas Willard Ray and Leo Francis Baker, later as spies beeing executed, at all 2 US pilots survived all sorties of the operation.

I agree, the country remained poor, this was a result of the US blocking Cuba (what was/is their good right), but a number of other countries, special in South America were forced to do the same.
Special in/during the down of the Soviet Union many people flew out of that country, searching for a better life. And he has lost the backhold of the Cubans in his long period of dictatorship. But that's the same in the Dominic Republic & Haiti .

Maybe we come later (Why do they hate us?) to this issues too.


Those (Cuban) bastards, they fought back.

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Ennath

... And brutal as the Batista regime was, it fell far short in that regard compared to what followed.

So Batista did provide free education to PhD, did provide among the best healthcare in the world (better that the USA) and didn't rob the Cuban people of their assets?

Man, you learn something every day

[Puhbear69]

Originally Posted by Ennath
... And brutal as the Batista regime was, it fell far short in that regard compared to what followed.

Originally Posted by palo5

So Batista did provide free education to PhD, did provide among the best healthcare in the world (better that the USA) and didn't rob the Cuban people of their assets?

Man, you learn something every day

The infant mortality at the time of Fulgencio Batista was at 102 1/1000.
That means, from 1000 Babies died 102 as infants.

60% of adults deads the issue were an infection.

1% of the Cuban citizens had a completed school education (any-).

[palo5]

Originally Posted by Puhbear69

...1% of the Cuban citizens had a completed school education...

And now they are more literate than the Americans

Hurrah for Cuba!