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January 18th, 2019, 11:01 PM | #5121 | |
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There's definitely a contradiction between a hard Brexit and the GFA as well as between May's red lines and the GFA. (A soft Brexit would help solve the backstop issue). But you have to remember that it's the UK which signed the GFA, and it's the UK which created that backstop problem with Brexit. So it's up to the UK to compromise, otherwise History will remember the Brexiters as some reckless gamblers who destroyed the GFA. The EU is doing the right thing by supporting the Republic of Ireland. "All for one and one for all" as Alexandre Dumas wrote. That's how a team works. The longer this Brexit farce drags on, and the less likely the Brexiters will get what they want: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN1PB13O Britain would vote to stay in the European Union by a 12 percentage point margin if it was given another vote, the highest level since the shock 2016 Brexit referendum, according to a YouGov poll taken on Jan. 16. There's also an insightful piece in today's Guardian summing up what Brexit is all about: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...it-for-purpose The project was driven by decades of camped-up mendacity about the tyranny of the EU, and sold in the referendum as a fantasy of national liberation. It simply could not survive contact with reality. It died the moment it became real. You cannot free yourself from imaginary oppression. Even if May were a political genius – and let us concede that she is not – Brexit was always going to come down to a choice between two evils: the heroic but catastrophic failure of crashing out; or the unheroic but less damaging failure of swapping first-class for second-class EU membership. These are the real afterlives of a departed reverie. |
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January 19th, 2019, 06:30 AM | #5122 |
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We had a vote and the decision was to leave the EU
How that is done is up to HMG but all this shenanigans about another vote is plain bonkers. It will do nothing but divide the country far more than it is now and break the bond between the people who voted to leave and our leaders The UK has had a Eurosceptic outlook from the times of wine lakes, butter mountains and Edith Cresson so the referendum result is a very fair reflection and the thought of remaining in the EU is anathema to me. Even outside the EU we will still have many strong historic, personal and cultural ties with Europe and that will continue. I am not listening to Project Fear Redux supporters as I firmly believe we can thrive outside the EU that's all from me, see you on the flip side
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January 19th, 2019, 07:34 AM | #5123 |
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"We had a vote" Brexiteers cling to that like a Nun clutching Her rosary,You voted for something We can't get and We're going to get something no one wants.The WTO rules that Brexiteers speak of so blithely do not cover Services,Services constitute 80% of the UK economy,So what then ? We're not "Going Global".We're headed for the gutter.
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January 19th, 2019, 08:02 AM | #5124 | |
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January 19th, 2019, 08:19 AM | #5125 | |
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Seems you don´t care whether there will be a severe division between your people who nearly reflect 50% of the opposite opinion. Where are your "leaders" a.t.m.? They have nothing better to do than to divide themselves within their own party and play embarrassing games in order to maintain their positions. How ridiculous is it to sack down the own PM because of a unpleasant deal and to speak confidence one day after. I am very sure that you won´t get the Brexit you are hoping for. What is on the table is of course a compromise, but a compromise that 2 negotiators have agreed upon. The fact that your government and its MP´s reject this plan shows their egoism in plain form. This attitude won´t bring you forward - it leads straight to a hard Brexit without a deal. Speaking from the EU-side, I can only hope (and I am pretty sure) that the deal on the table will not be opened or re-negotiated. Too much time has been invested, but you still don´t know what you want. The hard Brexit seems inevitable to me, and the more I read and hear at this place convinces me that you won´t be satisfied until your country has completely decoupled from the EU. You can have it...no, you will have it! I just feel sorry for the 48% (it will be more now, that´s for sure) who will suffer widely due to an incompetent government who has shown nothing but 100% failure throughout the last months. We in the EU have enough of this attitude...and we are well advised to no longer wait and see what garbage comes next. .
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January 19th, 2019, 08:49 AM | #5126 | |
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The reason for this is if we selectively waive only some tariffs on certain goods and countries is that we will have to check every single lorry to see if tariffs apply. We haven't even thought about which tariffs will be waived and even if we had decided this the traffic at Dover would effectively grind to a halt. There is no infrastructure or 'new technology' in place to handle this on the 29th and no plans for it anywhere in the near future. Unless you physically check the lorry how do you know what the goods are or exactly where they come from? If they don't they can avoid tariffs by sneaking through unchecked. 'No deal' is the very worst deal for trade. |
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January 19th, 2019, 09:29 AM | #5127 | |
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Yet again you are reduced to used stupid sweeping arguments, there is NO Brexit breed just as there is NO Remain breed, I voted leave for my own personal reasons largely involving us taking back control of our country within this country and also having lived through the whole 40 years of our membership actually within the EEC/EU, which you have not done, yet you feel happy to give your opinions on which is fair enough, just as I feel happy to ignore them. Have I any doubts, yes of course and the current behaviour of many MP's in Parliament does not help that. I don't expect leaving will be easy and you will never find anywhere I have said that, what I have often said is yes there may be some tough times ahead but we have faced tough times before and if the country can pull together I am sure we will manage to thrive outside the EU.
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January 19th, 2019, 10:22 AM | #5128 | |
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Now don't misunderstand me - I do know that Britain's four nations all have degrees of autonomy and self-government nowadays (arguably except England). However, we have an internal free trade area and a common travel area [which includes the Irish Republic]. We have remained outside the Schengen Agreement and actually the Irish Republic made that choice too. Regarding the so-called free movement of people, all that is needed is that we and the Irish government agree to implement sensible checks on who comes in from outside the Common Travel Area in order to watch each others backs, which is same as it ever was, and exactly the same as it already is now, when Britain is still a member of the EU. As regards the free movement of goods, this will presumably require some sort of free trade agreement and we know this is achievable. Other countries have free trade agreements with the EU. For movement of goods to be frictionless will require some more intelligent thinking, pretty much what we haven't yet had, but I was mildly intrigued when I read somewhere on this thread that the EU itself had suggested that customs procedures could take place anywhere in the British Isles, not necessarily in Northern Ireland or on the border. This would have resolved the critical issue of treating Northern Ireland differently, the thing which no one should be surprised that the Unionists in Northern Ireland will not accept. If that is true, if the EU really did make such an offer, then Mrs May and her ministers are idiots not to have been open to that proposal: but, hey, we know they are idiots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i97FkO3d_lU Frankly, if there is a genuine achievable alternative to Mrs May's utterly crap proposal, an alternative in which Britain genuinely leaves the EU but also initiates a friendly and cooperative relationship afterwards, we should not be wasting time. The only way to reach such a goal would be to request an extension of the Article 50 declaration deadline, because this is detailed stuff which would need months, not weeks, just to create a heads of agreement. All EU members would have to consent to such an extension, and the only reason why they even might agree to do that would be if they could see a real point to it, and that it might make a difference. I think the British side would need to have at least a basis for negotiations, the principle on which a realistic plan could be made.
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January 19th, 2019, 11:12 AM | #5129 | |
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January 19th, 2019, 01:39 PM | #5130 |
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The Boat
The other day, I was watching the Buster Keaton silent movie "The Boat"
In one scene, water is pouring in from a hole in the side of the boat in a long stream, hitting the floor and filling the boat with water. His 'solution' is to catch the water in a funnel, but he needs to get the water from the funel out of the boat - so he drills a hole in the bottom of the boat. Result = now twice as much water is flooding in. This sums up the UK government handling of 'Brexit' - a HUGE fuck up - and we're sinking fast
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