Windows 10?

[Rick Danger]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

Are you familiar with Black Viper?

It's news to me. Thanks, I'll check into it.

[Rick Danger]

It's 9:59 pm here and I haven't had dinner. So I have not read this thoroughly with a critical eye. But I wanted to post this immediately..........

Microsoft commits to 10-year support lifecycle for Windows 10

It's been a bad week for conspiracy theorists. As the Windows 10 launch nears, Microsoft is clearing up loose ends. Today's announcement of a 10-year support commitment for Windows 10 should remove one persistent bit of FUD from the discussion.

By Ed Bott for The Ed Bott Report
July 17, 2015 -- 16:00 GMT (09:00 PDT)
Topic: Windows 10

With the global launch of Windows 10 less than two weeks away, Microsoft's lawyers and business managers are finishing the pieces of the puzzle that don't involve code.

Earlier this week, Microsoft published its license terms for Windows 10. Today, the company updated its support lifecycle policy for the new OS. In the process, they've cleared up the confusion over a phrase that defines the new Windows 10 servicing model.

Here's the details:

For Windows 10, Microsoft will continue its traditional 10-year support lifecycle. The five-year mainstream support phase begins with the release of Windows 10 on July 29, 2015, and a second five-year extended support phase begins in 2020 and extends until October 2025. (That's a few months later than July 29, 2025, because of the way Microsoft calculates support dates.)

A note to that policy qualifies the support commitment to devices where the OEM continues to support Windows 10 on that device.

Back in January, Windows boss Terry Myerson announced the new "Windows as a service" plan, using this language:

"This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device - at no additional charge."

Today's announcement clears up the "supported lifetime of the device" controversy.

Here's the full text of the footnote:

"Updates are cumulative, with each update built upon all of the updates that preceded it. A device needs to install the latest update to remain supported. Updates may include new features, fixes (security and/or non- security), or a combination of both. Not all features in an update will work on all devices. A device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer's ("OEM") support period. Update availability may vary, for example by country, region, network connectivity, mobile operator (e.g., for cellular-capable devices), or hardware capabilities (including, e.g., free disk space)."

There will be no charges for updates during the supported phase. There will be no Windows 10 subscription fees during the supported phase.

If you're concerned about the ramifications of that OEM support clause, you can rest easy, based on what I've heard from insiders with knowledge of the new rules.

You can upgrade to Windows 10 today even on devices where the OEM does not officially support Windows 10 and has no plans to do so. If an OEM sells a device running Windows 10 today and stops delivering driver and firmware updates for it, the device will continue working and it won't stop receiving updates.

It's possible that some new features in a future version of Windows 10 won't work on older devices. In fact, that scenario is already true for the Windows Hello feature, which will only be available at launch on a handful of devices with Intel RealSense cameras. But in those cases the devices will still receive security fixes and other feature updates for which it's eligible.

One question Microsoft didn't answer today is what happens in two or three years. In the past, that would have been time for a new version of Windows to take its place on the support lifecycle chart and bump the old one down a notch. With Windows as a continually evolving platform, that option isn't available.

One clue about what happens next is in that updated support lifecycle page. All other client operating systems are listed by their major version number: Windows 7, Windows 8, and so on. The new entry reads, "Windows 10, released in July 2015."

My guess, based on that language, is that in the next two years or so we'll see an extension of the 10-year lifecycle based on a new baseline release date. But that's just speculation, and we'll have to wait for the actual answer.

[Rick Danger]

Originally Posted by a435843

That footnote reads very strangely, and this is my interpretation: if an older computer can't accept an update because of hardware or driver issues, the "support period" ends, in other words, Windows 10 stops getting any updates, including security updates.

The most likely scenario is that MS will say that old hardware just won't run whatever "big new shiny update" that they cough up in two years (a date that came up previously as a potential "big release" date for some new "service pack" features), so old computers are "no longer supported",
so no security updates, no updates of any kind. Not Acceptable. I would definitely not put 10 on a current 7 or 8.1 machine for this reason alone.

QUESTION: How do you get to a BILLION devices running Windows 10 ?
ANSWER: Forced obsolescence !

I can't see how Microsoft defines this as "support" for Windows 10. One day at some arbitrary date of Microsoft's choosing and without prior notice you wake up to find your computer is no longer "supported". And as a Windows 10 Home user (the free "upgrade"), you cannot choose to opt out of such an upgrade. Unless of course you wish to pay for Windows 10 Pro or Windows 10 Enterprise. The higher you pay, the more control you get to have of YOUR OWN COMPUTER. Windows 10 Home as ransomware !

Of course Microsoft will come back and say that the computer OEMs will now define how long the device will be Windows 10 compatible. How is that going to work, exactly ? Are the OEMs now responsible for testing each and every Microsoft update, determine its' fitness, and then publish release information to its' customers as to whether the release is or is not supported on specific makes or models of computer ? Only the largest of hardware OEMs could step up to the plate for this kind of responsibility. Smaller firms would now be at a competitive disadvantage. I wonder if the US Federal Trade Commission would view this as Redmond and the big box OEMs in collusion to restrain trade ?

All prior Windows releases had defined dates after which technical support would be discontinued and then updates would no longer be released. Let's look at Microsoft's published Lifecycle factsheet for Windows:



Source:http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

The math is simple. If you are running Windows 7, you can stand pat and not worry about security updates for FIVE YEARS. Or you can roll the dice, install Windows 10 and perhaps risk being unsupported in two. Lord, even if you're running Vista SP2 you still have two years before you'll have to toss out your machine and buy a new one (or a used Windows 7/8.x machine !).

You notice how Microsoft is NOT applying this support model to it's high volume corporate customers: Redmond is greedy, but not stupid. Big enterprise and institutional users of Windows would drop them like an empty beer can.

I can see class-action lawsuits in the horizon.

Stay tuned for the next article. Things only get better...................

[Rick Danger]

Even if you wish to believe in Microsoft's benevolence in announcing their 10 Year support for Windows 10, this ZDNet article will have you shaking your head.

I think this article was written by my Mom (God rest her soul). At one point the author is arguing that automatic updates are a "great idea". Then he turns around and talks about past problems with updates and the possibility of Microsoft pushing down what amounts to PUP (potentially unwanted programs) onto unsuspecting users. He ends with a conciliatory list of potential abuses he hopes Microsoft will not engage in. As Mom would say "Pee or get off the Pot !".

IN MY OPINION, forcing the installation of unannounced, undocumented updates to a computer, including PUP amounts to a security violation in and of itself. To insist that your computer will not be supported unless you agree in principal to the receipt of such updates holds the user at ransom, and hence is the definition of RANSOMWARE.

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft implements a "denial of service" policy stating that computers that have not been updated will no longer be able to access other services like Office 365 and OneDrive.

Based on the information contained in these two articles, I will not be installing Windows 10 Home when it is made available July 29th. With three years of mainstream support remaining and EIGHT YEARS of extended support available to my Windows 8.1 machines, I'd be a total lunatic to disrupt otherwise stable computers to wander off into Windows 10 La-la Land. I may be crazy, but I'm not a fool.

If I were a user of or interested in Windows Phone, XBox, Surface tablet, or some other Microsoft product I might view this differently. But I'm not. And promises that Windows 10 and other services will magically deliver some grand new, totally integrated computing environment fall on deaf ears. I heard giants like IBM and DEC make those same promises twenty years ago.

Certainly within three to eight years I will be in the market for a new computer, at which time I can decide to venture into Windows 10 --- or Linux --- or MacIntosh...........

Mandatory Windows 10 Home updates: The good, the bad, and the potentially ugly

Windows 10 Home updates coming to a PC near you, whether you want them or not.

By Adrian Kingsley-Hughes for Hardware 2.0
July 17, 2015 -- 11:32 GMT (04:32 PDT)
Topic: Windows 10

If you want to run Windows 10 Home then you will have to agree to Microsoft's terms, and those now state that you agree to have updates automatically installed on your system.

You're agreeing to this when you accept the terms of the licensing agreement (you do read the EULA, right? Right?). Specifically [emphasis added]:

"Updates. The software periodically checks for system and app updates, and downloads and installs them for you. You may obtain updates only from Microsoft or authorized sources, and Microsoft may need to update your system to provide you with those updates. By accepting this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice."

In fact, the only say in the matter you'll get is when your system is rebooted -- you'll be able to choose between an automatic reboot, or a reboot at a time that's convenient for you.

On the whole, I think that this is a great idea. Timely installation of operating system updates is one of the cornerstones to keeping a system safe and secure. The longer a system goes without receiving updates, the more at risk it becomes. Given that the default option for Windows is to download and install updates automatically, it's a safe bet to say that this is how most "Joe and Jane Average" users have their systems configured, so most people will never notice the change.

That said, it's nice to have an option. After all, Microsoft has been known to push out havoc-inducing updates. Two updates that I remember causing me grief over the past year or so were KB3033929 and KB3004394. Toxic updates have a special knack of making you hate your life, and it was nice to have the ability to quarantine problematic updates and prevent them from being installed onto all the machines over at the PC Doc HQ. For the most important PCs I like to let others shake out the update bugs for a few days before I apply the patches, just in case.

Under Windows 10 Home, that won't be an option.

Another problem I have with automatic updating is that it could become a conduit for offloading junkware onto users.

Microsoft does have some history with regards to this practice. Take, for example, KB2673774 which delivered a Bing toolbar to users, and KB2876229 which pushed Skype to users. Both were packaged as "optional" updates, which means that they weren't downloaded and installed automatically, but both are examples of what Microsoft has in the past tried to push to users via Windows Update.

More recently, Microsoft used KB3035583, first released as an "optional" update before being rereleased as "important," to push Windows 10 update nag messages to users. Microsoft reserves the "important" category for updates that "help keep your computer more secure and reliable, protecting your computer and your privacy," claiming that "[t]hese updates include security and critical updates, as well as reliability improvements." It's certainly debatable whether KB3035583 fell into that category.

Since it's not just security updates that Microsoft is going to be pushing out to Windows 10 users but feature updates too, users will have to trust Microsoft to exercise good judgment as to what it pushes down the pipes to end users.

Windows 10 Pro users get a bit more control over their systems, and will be able to switch over to the Current Branch for Business (CBB) version of Windows 10, which will allow them to delay feature updates. However, delaying for too long will result in security updates also being blocked.

The only Windows 10 users who will get complete control over updates are those running Windows 10 Enterprise who opt for Long Term Servicing (LTS).

I want to reiterate that I'm not saying that automatic updates are a bad thing. On the whole this is a good move that will help to make us all safer, regardless of what team colors we support. I'm also not accusing Microsoft of changing the EULA so it can be shady and push endless junkware at users. However, I am hoping that:

* The testing of patches has been improved given that many hundreds of millions of users won't be able to opt out or block a toxic update.

* Microsoft will show restraint in what it pushes down the pipes to users. Toolbars and similar assorted junk are not cool.

* Microsoft will be conscious of those on bandwidth-limited connections.

I know that "Windows-as-a-service" is Microsoft's latest thing, but as we saw with Windows 8, trying to shoehorn ideology ahead of the end user experience (in that instance it was the touch-first user interface) is a recipe for unhappy users. And unhappy users wouldn't be good for Microsoft's ambitions to have Windows 10 on a billion devices within a few years.

[9876543210]

Rick Danger,

Originally Posted by Rick Danger

It's news to me. Thanks, I'll check into it.

Oh, OK. I figured you were probably familiar with him as I've used his site for trimming services for years (maybe since Win 95). Anyway, here's his site (hope its worth your while):

http://www.blackviper.com/

[9876543210]

a435843

Originally Posted by a435843

This randomness suggests to me that you were getting some system corruption from the re-update process from that one weird update, which (hopefully) sorted itself out by doing the bulk update. Perhaps the manual download and update alternative would have worked better for the bad update, after which the other 8, or so, updates that didn't cause a problem would have been OK. Did the bad update go in OK, eventually?

After trying to install the bad update two or three times (and then deleting it each time) I currently have it hidden and haven't had the time yet to really look into a work around. Possibly tomorrow.

And once I knew which update was screwing the computer and was not on the machine, I reinstalled the remaining eight or nine as a batch. All went in fine and I haven't noticed a problem since. So I'm thinking all of those were fine.

[Rick Danger]

Originally Posted by 9876543210

Oh, OK. I figured you were probably familiar with him as I've used his site for trimming services for years (maybe since Win 95). Anyway, here's his site (hope its worth your while):

http://www.blackviper.com/

A superb resource. Again, many thanks !

[EsotericKnave]

Originally Posted by a435843

In short, if you plan to put Windows 10 on a PC that currently has Windows 7 or 8.1, Microsoft plans to cut off security (or any other) updates to that computer, likely around two years, either after the release date of July 29th (probably), or after the date you upgraded the machine during the one-year "free" upgrade period.

I have two PCs, one with 7, and one with 8.1 so I'll just lay in the weeds and keep reading this thread which will be in the 100s of pages two years from now I'm sure! Thanks for all the great info guys

[Rick Danger]

From GameSpot.com...................

Windows 10 Comes With Pre-Installed Candy Crush Saga
You can't escape.

by Eddie Makuch on May 15, 2015

Social gaming giant King is bringing its wildly popular match-three puzzle game Candy Crush Saga to Windows 10, the next operating system from Microsoft, it was announced this week.

In fact, Candy Crush Saga will come pre-installed for everyone who upgrades to Windows 10 or downloads a new copy of the OS "for periods of time," Microsoft explained in a post on the Xbox Wire.

Candy Crush Saga for Windows 10 also includes cross-platform play with the iOS and Android versions.

What's more, Microsoft teased that other games from King will be coming to Windows 10. However, none were named outright.

This news comes as King shares have tumbled following an earnings report that warned investors about "softer" revenue for the current financial quarter.

Windows 10 launches this summer, rolling out first on PC before coming to Xbox One later. It will be available as a free upgrade for existing Windows users. The OS also comes with a new Xbox app and will even support game streaming with Xbox One.

Yeah, I can't wait to play Candy Crush....... but WTF is Candy Crush ???

[Rick Danger]

Originally Posted by a435843

Check out this PC Magazine article, but skip the article, and just watch the poster get owned in the comments.

I did read the article and the comments. The article reminded me why I stopped subscribing to PC Magazine years ago. If I want marketing hype, I can read all of it for free from the product manufacturer's ads. Just like I skip Fox or MSNBC and go to CNN for objective news.

Here's my response to the article and the bloggers...........

Rick Danger • 3 minutes ago

Does this pass for objective reporting ?

Ten Reasons ??? How 'bout five ? Let's subtract the following:

1. Speed - Being a Windows 8.1 user, I'd be more interested in a start up comparison between Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. And even then it's still comparing apples to oranges (no pun intended), since I'd expect a brand new OS right out of the box to be faster than an OS that has been routinely updated. If in two years from now an updated copy of Windows 10 is still faster than a two year old copy of Windows 8.1, THEN you have a valid comparison.

5. Touch - Wasn't this the issue that nearly sunk Windows 8 ? Not every home user or small business is laying out premium money to buy touch screen PCs or to replace working devices for the sake of touch. How much of the current install base or monthly sales are touch screen machines ?

7. A Better Browser - Duhuhh..... after reading security reviews disclosing the fact that Internet Explorer had fundamental security flaws built in I stopped using it over five years ago. I am using a better browser...... it's called FireFox.

8. Security - The Passport app only works in environments using Azure Active Directory. Are these security apps in Windows 10 Home or in Enterprise ?

10. Xbox App - I don't own an Xbox and I am not planning to anytime in the future. Including this into the list makes absolutely no sense.

I read all the comments. As usual, we have the pro-Microsoft crowd, many of whom were probably extolling the virtues of Windows Vista a while back. Here's a hint children: Not everyone who doesn't agree with your vision of computer utopia is an idiot. And you probably aren't as smart as you think you are. And of course we have the anti-Microsoft "everything after DOS is a Microsoft conspiracy" crowd. Microsoft is a business, plain and simple. They are not your friends, nor can they or will they build products that answer every arcane use that the public can dream up (why can't I use my left over 8" diskettes ????). Yes, for some Windows is a very good product that satisfies their needs. But it can't be all things to all people. If you're running Windows 7, 8, or 8.1, no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to go with Windows 10. You still have support and time to consider your options. If you're running Windows XP, especially if you insist on remaining connected to the Internet, you are playing Russian Roulette with five loaded chambers.

I'll be sitting on Windows 8.1 for at least another year, simply because I don't have the time or money to upgrade multiple machines, replace applications, and potentially hardware. Even if everything that I use today will work 100% under Windows 10, my time also has an economic value. Consider your next step with cold, hard logic - not hoorahs from one side or howls from the other.

I'm going to take a rest from this thread until July 30th....... hopefully the Windows 10 rollout won't freeze the Internet a la the movie "The Day After Tomorrow"......................