Holocaust:True Or False ?

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

WHat is a "hate crime " ? Assuming the hater, however repellent his particular viewpoint may be, is not inciting physical violence against a person or a group, surely what he is being accused of is "thought crime"?

As defined by the Crown Prosecution Service -

The term 'hate crime' can be used to describe a range of criminal behaviour where the perpetrator is motivated by hostility or demonstrates hostility towards the victim's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

It doesn't have to be violent. Harrassment and abusive behaviour motivated by hostility towards the victim's race and/or religion also counts. Holocaust denial is intentionally offensive and insulting towards the victims and descendants of victims of the holocaust and IMHO it is a hate crime, meriting harsh punishment. It isn't a thought crime, because the perpetrators don't have the common courtesy to think it and keep quiet - they spew it out, forcing decent people to have to listen.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

WHat is a "hate crime " ? Assuming the hater, however repellent his particular viewpoint may be, is not inciting physical violence against a person or a group, surely what he is being accused of is "thought crime"?

Isn't the important part of the hate crime the committing of the actual crime, as apposed to thinking a 'thought crime'?

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

As defined by the Crown Prosecution Service -


It doesn't have to be violent. Harrassment and abusive behaviour motivated by hostility towards the victim's race and/or religion also counts. Holocaust denial is intentionally offensive and insulting towards the victims and descendants of victims of the holocaust and IMHO it is a hate crime, meriting harsh punishment.

So it's not a crime to hate and abuse and harass [ non physically of course] and be generally hostile to, eg, Communists or Nazis or Republicans or liberals or socialists or Scottish Nationalists- provided you don't bring up religion or colour or sexual orientation etc..

I think Holocaust deniers, like all conspiracy theorists are daft, I can't see that they do any real harm - nobody with any sense takes any notice of them.

WHat worries me about it all is that first it's made illegal to deny the Holocaust and before you know it, it's illegal to question climate change

[brk549]

That's what Hitler and the Nazi's did,prosecute and persecute people for what they thought.You can't punish people for being ignorant of the facts and refusing to see reality,you just have to hope there's not that many of them.When the camps were built and one of the first things they built were the ovens that should be enough to tell anyone what they had in mind.

[MisterOz_GatorLover]

Originally Posted by brk549

That's what Hitler and the Nazi's did,prosecute and persecute people for what they thought.You can't punish people for being ignorant of the facts and refusing to see reality,you just have to hope there's not that many of them.When the camps were built and one of the first things they built were the ovens that should be enough to tell anyone what they had in mind.

If we punished Holocaust deniers, wouldn’t that give ALL of society an idea of who to shun, condemn, and ostracize?

[Dropped52]

I'll have to read back a few pages to give credit to whomever said it (brecht) but there was a comment about the elder Jews of the current time giving a younger generation of Jews a constant barrage of bringing up the holocaust (not an exact quote). Wouldnt that be similar to what the ottoman turks did to the Armenians and the fact that many Armenian youths know about it. I think, denial/deniers aside its important to keep that history alive, same as Cambodia and its genocide, Japan and its war crimes against the Chinese and the u.s. and slavery. All of these things that could be widdled out of the millennial generation and younger can lead to history repeating itself. Sorry for rambling.

[brk549]

There are millions of us that think it's wrong and a crime to kill millions of babies,born and unborn.We don't punish those that think it's OK to do that,we just don't turn our back to them.Anyone that can't see what happened in WW2 will be wrong on a lot of other important things also.

[Dirk]

Holocaust did happen, its no fiction or fairy tale.

And:
This thread is a danger to VEF, because it may give some authorities a reason to ban VEF. I strongly recommend to close and delete this thread!

[MaxJoker]

Originally Posted by Dirk

Holocaust did happen, its no fiction or fairy tale.

You couldn't have read the premise of this thread (Lucky devil). Everyone knows it occurred. Even originator Sant`eee.
Although if you add up the "Undesirables" that were eradicated including various nations (Hundreds of thousands in Germany alone ) disabled () children. Then in a quantifiable manner many more died than six million Jews.

Originally Posted by Dirk

This thread is a danger to VEF, because it may give some authorities a reason to ban VEF.

It`s based in Switzerland , the authorizes will only give us hassles once they've finished polishing Nazi gold.

Originally Posted by Dirk

I strongly recommend to close and delete this thread!

Whereas I suggest you keep enjoying that ice cream in your avatar and calm down dear.

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Okay I have run this thread by the mods and they said it is okay as long as the posters don't get out of hand.

I never got the memo

If had would have spoken in the negative about the idea , let alone it`s title.

[cicciobuki]

Originally Posted by MaxJoker

I never got the memo

If had would have spoken in the negative about the idea , let alone it`s title.

It had another title in the beginning (i forgot what it was), but the current one is still very unfortunate IMO. Every time i see this thread pop up i cringe a little.

Edit: it was "Holocaust: believe it or not?" i think.
That said, i can't think of an adequate title myself...