Communism. Good or bad. What do you really know about Communism?

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

Marxism has nothing to do with famine.

[Mosco Vito]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

This foto was taken in the USSR in the late 1980s. At that time there was no famine, there was big deficit of food. But at that period there was no communism in the Union, the Russian government built capitalism, destroying soviet heritage.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Mosco Vito

This foto was taken in the USSR in the late 1980s. At that time there was no famine, there was big deficit of food. But at that period there was no communism in the Union, the Russian government built capitalism, destroying soviet heritage.

So in fact there were no shortages under Brezhnev, Andropov and Chernenko? Russia wasn't importing US wheat production at subsidised prices to stave off economic disaster in the 1970s? Everything was fine?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_grain_robbery

It makes me wonder why Communism ever came to an end in Russia.

[Nobody1]

The development in the agricultural sector is one of the success stories of the German reunification. Mainly because of the preservation of our large LPG structures. As a result, the still cooperative arranged agriculture in the east of our country works much more efficiently than that of the private large-scale farmers in the western part.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is indisputable fact number one.

Massive famines still exist today, although socialism seems largely extinct. So what is the problem? Let's think a little about what has not been said about famines.

Of course, the talk was not about market-driven monocultures that destroy the soil in the long term and the massive 'Land Grabbing' by Western corporations in order to grow crops for biofuel or flowers for Western markets. The talk was not about forced privatization of public assets as a basis for more and more IMF loans that plunge developing countries into a death spiral of financial slavery. Certain members were not talking about the test fields for carcinogenic neonicotinoids of western biotech corporations that demonstrably destroy nature itself (keyword bee population) and cause increasing poisoning phenomena within the local population, the price speculation with agricultural commodities by western futures exchanges that act as an additional food price booster, IWF contracts for the liberalization of agriculture imposed on developing countries, which stipulate that own agricultural subsidies must be reduced in order to open the domestic market for the highly subsidized European and North American agricultural products, and thus deprive local farmers of their livelihood. They are not talking about the immediate consequences of this fraud in form of less and less usable land for food production, water scarcity, a huge cattle mortality of weakened animals due to malnutrition, subsequent disease epidemics and harvests i.e. profits that are exported to enrich the already super-rich industrial nations of the West. The talk is not about the numerous death squads and mercenary gangs, hired by Western intelligence agencies with insane black budgets in order to enforce open doors for Western business interests by deliberately provoking crisis situations and civil wars.

Well well!

The realization may be surprising for some, but the hunger crises of today's world do not happen in a vacuum. And they certainly do not come unexpectedly. There is a method to the madness, its name is capitalism. Hundreds of thousands of people starve to death, although there is enough food to feed everyone. The simple reason is that a market knows purchasing power, but not basic needs. Capitalism as a system is therefore inapt to ensure a comprehensive provision with essential goods and supplies.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is indisputable fact number two.

Btw, all the above mentioned does not only apply to developing countries. If you look around properly you will find it on your own doorstep. The hunger crises of today's world shows us in several ways the already centuries old misery of capitalism that encouraged Marx to analyze it. His analysis has proven itself to be correct. A superficial knowledge of his works is not enough to deny this in a credible way.

Reading recommendations on this topic :

The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism by Naomi Klein
Confessions of An Economic Hit Man by John Perkins
War is a Racket by Smedley Butler

[Wendigo]

So we are pretty much agreed (apart from the dreamers) that both Marxism and uncontrolled greed driven Capitalism have both failed to live up to expectations for different reasons.

In the context of the actual title of this thread though on balance Communism has been a failure of epic proportions.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

Communism has been a failure of epic proportions.

And people still haven't learned

[Mosco Vito]

Originally Posted by scoundrel

So in fact there were no shortages under Brezhnev, Andropov and Chernenko? Russia wasn't importing US wheat production at subsidised prices to stave off economic disaster in the 1970s? Everything was fine?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_grain_robbery

It makes me wonder why Communism ever came to an end in Russia.

The last famine was in the USSR in 1946. As for the import of grain, it is a very difficult issue that requires a scientific approach. The USSR disintegrated due to a number of reasons, the main of which is the desire of the party elite to transform into capitalists.

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

That photo alone is enough to put me off of the idea of Communism, forever.

For me, my idea of a bad day at the supermarket is when they are out of the specific pizza type I want to buy, among the dozens of others on offer.

One must feel very sorry for the former Soviet comrades, having supermarket shopping experiences like this.

Originally Posted by Mosco Vito

The last famine was in the USSR in 1946. As for the import of grain, it is a very difficult issue that requires a scientific approach. The USSR disintegrated due to a number of reasons, the main of which is the desire of the party elite to transform into capitalists.

I don't think we've ever had what you could call an actual famine here in the US, though we've had times of extreme poverty and dislocation, like during the Dustbowl era in the 30s. My dad's side of the family went through that, or part of them did. They still managed to eat, though.

Insofar as your last point goes, the "communist" leaders in China are now doing the same thing, some of them are multimillionaires. This is why Communism will never work out, because men always want more than they have or need, and sooner or later they will take it at the expense of others when circumstances permit. You will have to genetically engineer a new type of Communist Man who only requires his 3 meals a day and clothes and a warm bed, and who eschews by instinct all other forms of material possessions in order for Communism to really work. And that would not really be a man.

Whenever somebody presents you with a new ideology that will be the wonder of the world and save mankind from his evils and excesses, if only you will let him take over and lead you to the land of milk and honey, keep in mind this line from The Who:

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Because you WILL get fooled again, if you don't.

[Mosco Vito]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

That photo alone is enough to put me off of the idea of Communism, forever.

For me, my idea of a bad day at the supermarket is when they are out of the specific pizza type I want to buy, among the dozens of others on offer.

One must feel very sorry for the former Soviet comrades, having supermarket shopping experiences like this.



I don't think we've ever had what you could call an actual famine here in the US, though we've had times of extreme poverty and dislocation, like during the Dustbowl era in the 30s. My dad's side of the family went through that, or part of them did. They still managed to eat, though.

Insofar as your last point goes, the "communist" leaders in China are now doing the same thing, some of them are multimillionaires. This is why Communism will never work out, because men always want more than they have or need, and sooner or later they will take it at the expense of others when circumstances permit. You will have to genetically engineer a new type of Communist Man who only requires his 3 meals a day and clothes and a warm bed, and who eschews by instinct all other forms of material possessions in order for Communism to really work. And that would not really be a man.

Whenever somebody presents you with a new ideology that will be the wonder of the world and save mankind from his evils and excesses, if only you will let him take over and lead you to the land of milk and honey, keep in mind this line from The Who:

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Because you WILL get fooled again, if you don't.

That's a very good point. No radical ideology - communism, Nazism, medieval Christianity couldn't make one-dimensional man. Man was always man, trying to take a piece of fatty. In many ways, Soviet communism collapsed because of the desire of ordinary people to have an abundance of goods and food. Yes, now in Russia there are many different goods, but for this had to very costly pay. In the post-Communist period in Russia was built crony capitalism: there is a bunch of rich people, but millions of people do not live they survive. Only according to official statistics in the country more than 20 million people whose income is less than $ 150 per month. In desperation people take to drink, use drugs, commit crimes, join the ranks of the extremists. That is why in today's Russia, many people with nostalgia remember the era of communism, when everyone had a job, housing, medical care and so on.

[crinolynne]

Originally Posted by Wendigo

So we are pretty much agreed (apart from the dreamers) that both Marxism and uncontrolled greed driven Capitalism have both failed to live up to expectations for different reasons.

In the context of the actual title of this thread though on balance Communism has been a failure of epic proportions.

Now *that* is an indisputable fact...