Militant Islamists

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by shagger

Its pointless because its sensationalist in that its designed to provoke a reaction and is offensive to those that are religious such as myself, albeit not a muslim.

I feel that you're just out to pick a fight and in actual fact are doing nothing more than picking on a subdivision of society that are already demonised unfairly.

It also goes against the spirit of the board, where next, shall we pick on jews, or lets really shout bingo and go for "black people: Am I wrong?", it really is a kind of shameful racism based on small minded naive hatred of a religion and not on fact, don't kid yourself that it is.

Man I don't know where the hell you are coming from on this thread. Have you read the threads from start to finish? There are some valid ideas posted here. So I am not religious because I started this thread, again how the hell do you know?
Radical Islamist's are picked on unfairly? Again where do you get that from this thread?
This is first and foremost a porn forum so what spirit is it going against?
I ran this thread by the mods when I thought about starting it and they agreed as long as it didn't get out of control. You sir are threatening to put it there, IMO.
SO you are religious? Why are you on a porn forum then?

[shagger]

Originally Posted by deepsepia

No, that's actually wrong. Flat wrong.

Saudia Arabia as a matter of law has the punishment for apostasy as death. That is not the law in Israel, nor in any Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, or Shinto nation. Its uniquely Muslim

As I noted, Deuteronomy certainly says some ferocious things-- none of which have been enforced since approximately 30 AD (when its was decided that life and death were matters for God to decide). I would fully concur that to have worshiped "false idols" in 100 BC Palestine might have brought down a punishment . . . but that was two thousand years ago. Not a problem today, yesterday, or tomorrow.

Real simple. You don't have to believe me-- try the Library of Congress' white paper on the issue, which I referenced previously. Its here: http://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/index.php

In part:

NO. you're wrong, I take your point on the old testament and that totally proves my point that it IS NOT SOLELY a muslim thing:

"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again."
Deuteronomy 13:6-11

“informers and apostates also known as “mosers” should be thrown into a pit to die"
Jewish Talmud, Abodah Zarah 26a – 26b

Nothing about this is specific to Saudi: the following countries all make apostasy a capital crime:
Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen

Indeed, Afghanistan was only narrowly prevented from executing someone for this, for the "crime" of converting to Christianity.

See "Afghanistan: HRW Still Concerned About Apostasy Law" for details
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1067197.html

And although Iran decided not to make apostasy a crime in the criminal code, they still execute people for it-- indeed, that's what the fatwa against Rushdie is about

Here's the official Iranian news agency's comment on the 25th anniversary of the fatwa


Here's the "Iran Human Rights Documentation Center"'s report on "Apostasy in Iran"
http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/publ...c-of-iran.html

Again your point on hard line Iran disproves your original notion, I've actually worked for AramCo in SA and both ENI and platts in Iran and Iraq.

Whilst in Iran I've worked with muslim converts that are now christians and atheists, they said although it wasn't liked by the government and people, it was tolerated, additionally to this day Iranian govt. has xtians and jews in its parliament, I've seen the same tolerance in saddam era Iraq and currently this also exists in kurdistan and uzbekistan.

Note-- Iran and Saudi Arabia are about as different as they can be in their understanding of Islamic belief; they follow different traditions, different scholars, but the Iranians are every bit as bloody minded about ridda

So you can't logically attribute this to "only a saudi wahabi disposition that insists on this" as you do, since the Iranians are as far from Saudi and Wahhabism as its possible to be.

SO I can and correctly do attribute this to wahabi teachings, although i take your point on strict iranian law, but you're simply picking out hardcore religious theocracies and saying there you go they're strict...of course they are.

Both the iranian and saudi belief systems are obviously based centrally around the same religion and are strict in their interpretation, these laws are simply not enforced in most cases other than in saudi or its co religionist sponsors (the other countries you've listed).

Only in the Muslim world do heads of State condemn people to death for apostasy-- and its hardly just Saudis, nor just Wahhabis, nor just Sunnis. Indeed, far from receding into a long ago more brutal history, more Muslim states are explicitly adopting this policy.

Take Malaysia, for example, which has such a measure before the Kelantan State Assembly as I write:

LOL Wrong again, the Malaysian belief system is heavily sponsored by the saudi government, they've built/part funded over 100 mosques in the country and lay out the taught syllabus in these states.

You've also just said yourself that Iran hasn't! FYI neither has Turkey, Uzbekistan, Indonesia, Morocco, Algeria, Lebanon....and the list really does go on.

In all seriousness, you're wrong

[shagger]

Originally Posted by forfucksake

Have you possibly heard of the westboro baptistchurch?

Well said!

[shagger]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

You are talking about one stupid preacher and his poorly led "flock". His idea(s) are NOT embraced by the Baptist's nor as far as I know any other "Christian" sect. The Islamist laws and actions are embraced by the religious leaders with support from the "state" (?). This makes it a totally different scenario, IMO.

you need to go to rwanda and nigeria and see for yourself!

Remember Waco, the Ku Klux clan, Montana freemen?

Don't forget the British states tacit approval and support for protestant death squads in ireland nor the american support by many senators for The IRA during the NI troubles.

You're being very selective in your argument and incorrectly so.

[shagger]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Man I don't know where the hell you are coming from on this thread. Have you read the threads from start to finish? There are some valid ideas posted here. So I am not religious because I started this thread, again how the hell do you know?

I dont care whether you believe in a religion or not, and I have gone through this thread and have followed it from its conception (I've also commented on it a while back if you care to sift through it) additionally its pretty much the same horrible thing all the way through.

Radical Islamist's are picked on unfairly? Again where do you get that from this thread?

pick on the radicals as much as you like, I'm with you all the way lets dig a pit, stick 'em all in, I'll p*ss on them, you can pour in the gasoline, all is good!

But you're picking issue with all muslims and thats just plain wrong !!!

What you're doing, perhaps unintentionally, is saying look at all these psychos lets go for ALL muslims as they are ALL to blame and thats just wrong!

Look at the last Pope's personal cover up of thousands of paedophile cases or the Christian Lords's army in uganda that have committed multiple atrocities in uganda, drugging and raping women and children never mind forcing captives in to becoming child soldiers, it was also supported by senior African christian clerics.

But do we condemn christians or christianity for this? No because it would be ludicrous.

This is first and foremost a porn forum so what spirit is it going against?
I ran this thread by the mods when I thought about starting it and they agreed as long as it didn't get out of control. You sir are threatening to put it there, IMO.

you wanted to provoke a reaction and you've got one, So why cant we instead concentrate on the porn?

SO you are religious? Why are you on a porn forum then?

LOL I'm clearly not that religious, and I'm gonna say what's right regardless, if I feel people are being unjustly treated.


reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRgS8y-7uXA

[DeveZigenSinek]

Originally Posted by SanteeFats

Is it time to start expelling Muslim extremists and those who are deemed to be a terrorist threat? Speak up people!!!

I am sorry, but your real enemy are the bankers that rule the World. not the Muslims, not the Jews, not the Christians.. There will be no peace on this planet while the Banking cartel rules over the mankind..

[SanteeFats]

Originally Posted by DeveZigenSinek

I am sorry, but your real enemy are the bankers that rule the World. not the Muslims, not the Jews, not the Christians.. There will be no peace on this planet while the Banking cartel rules over the mankind..

Possibly but the radicals are the ones actively killing not only their own but others as well.

[sydney1]

Originally Posted by shagger

you need to go to rwanda and nigeria and see for yourself!

Remember Waco, the Ku Klux clan, Montana freemen?

Don't forget the British states tacit approval and support for protestant death squads in ireland nor the american support by many senators for The IRA during the NI troubles.

You're being very selective in your argument and incorrectly so.

Which side of the pond are you from? Just curious. For the record I was offered contracts in Saudi/Iraq/Libya in the eighties. Fellow engineers when they came back for a holiday or just returning educated the rest of us on the politics and stupidity of the various countries, and even then I knew about the Sunni/Shia divide, which is just the same as the f**k-up in Northern Ireland as far as religion goes.
FWIW my father was in the British Royal Navy in the fifties and one time docked in Beiruit and spent a weekend there, and in his words:"Place was like Switzerland in the Middle-East,F**king brilliant...and then they decided to blow the shit out of the place.Morons."
A lot of blame can be laid on Britain for causing some much sh*t in the Levant now. First TE Lawrence courting and fighting the Ottomans for the House of Saud in the first world war. These twats are followers of Al Wahhab. A first-class c**t who bragged about stoning a woman to death,
The second is Balfour stating the the Jews should create a homeland in Palestine.
Consequently we are now dealing with the after-effects in those two individual events in history.
I actually read Seven Pillar's of Wisdom by TE Lawrence in the eighties and realized that early on, he wasn't keen on females and was a repressed homosexual. He states in the book that he was whipped by Ottoman soldiers. It never happened, probably some homo-erotic fantasy of his tendencies.
Strangely enough, more Muslims have fought for Great Britain than have fought against her.

[scoundrel]

Seven Pillars of Wisdom is a very good book; I read it several times when I was a student. Colonel Lawrence claimed to have been tortured and raped by garrison soldiers at Deraa (modern Syria of course). As far as I know there is no independent corroberation of this incident. But most of the other events described in the book are corroberated independently, so Colonel Lawrence was not a habitual liar. It is also a fact that he wiped out a retreating column of Turkish infantry, an entire division, which had been caught red handed after massacring a number of Arab villages as an act of pure malice against a province which was about to be set free from centuries of Turkish rule. In the book, Colonel Lawrence orders his force as follows:

The best man among you is he who brings me the most Turkish dead.

Prior to the Deraa incident Colonel Lawrence was notable for the moderation of his attitude to the Turkish enemy and the subtlety of his tactics.

[9876543210]

scoundrel,

Originally Posted by scoundrel

It is also a fact that he wiped out a retreating column of Turkish infantry, an entire division, which had been caught red handed after massacring a number of Arab villages as an act of pure malice against a province which was about to be set free from centuries of Turkish rule. In the book, Colonel Lawrence orders his force as follows:

Prior to the Deraa incident Colonel Lawrence was notable for the moderation of his attitude to the Turkish enemy and the subtlety of his tactics.

Wasn't this incident depicted in the movie about Lawrence? Somewhere near the end? He was shown as being a bit off his rocker at the time if I remember.