The English Independence Thread

[haroldeye]

Could well be. Good solid British ice cream replaced by chemical shite in the name of profit.
Mind you that Charles the first, now there was a Euro Commissioner in the making.

[Mal Hombre]

Yep,Married to a Frenchwoman,Outsourced the war to the Scots and Irish..

[haroldeye]

According to a new history of Charles 1 he was completely under the thumb of his wife, Jean-Claude Henrietta Maria.

[mizlaplan]

Fingers crossed for Indyref2.
Looks like it might not happen due to Sturgeon predicted to not get a majority.
Bugger, Scottish nationalists must try harder

[otokonomidori]

Originally Posted by mizlaplan

Fingers crossed for Indyref2.
Looks like it might not happen due to Sturgeon predicted to not get a majority.
Bugger, Scottish nationalists must try harder

You won't be getting rid of us any time soon - still look on the bright side , you won't have to live next to all the nukes that we do up here in Haggistan

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by haroldeye

According to a new history of Charles 1 he was completely under the thumb of his wife, Jean-Claude Henrietta Maria.

He would probably have been a much better king had this been true.

I'm pretty sure Charles loved Queen Henrietta Maria very dearly - it is one of the few nice things about Charles I. She in her turn was smart, much smarter than he was - he had her to thank for raising much of the limited funds on which he fought against Parliament, and would have been flat broke much sooner without her. She was also considered a serious babe in her day and knew how to use beauty and charm to her political advantage.

A little example - her very sharp blow struck at Sir Thomas Fairfax when she induced Hugh Cholmeley, the commander of Scarborough Castle, to defect to the Royalists in March 1643. The Queen landed in Bridlington, returning from her fund raising mission in the Low Countries.

Hugh Cholmeley was already in Big Trouble. He has paid his garrison's wages out of his own pocket, but the Parliamentary Commissioner sent to pay the wages falsified the books to make it look as if he had paid the wages instead. His plan was to pocket the money, and Hugh Cholmeley to be the loser. It was a mistake, because Hugh Cholmeley pistoled him for it.

However, Hugh Cholmeley was in an awkward place because he and King Charles I had fallen out, Major League, Big Style. On the occasion of Charles dissolving Parliament, Cholmeley had told him to his face and very eloquently what his personal faults were. In return, His Majesty had given Cholmeley permission to go, but warned him that the very next time he and Cholmeley ever met again, Sir Hugh Cholmeley's head and body would start to require separate maintenance. So defecting to the Royalists wasn't just as easy as all that

Queen Henrietta Maria sorted the whole thing out in one quite brief meeting. On landing at Bridlington, her local allies tipped her off about how the commander of Scarborough Castle had just offed a senior Parliament civl servant and her reaction was along the lines of

If he's as useful as this when he's our enemy, just how useful could he be if he was our friend.

She granted him safe conduct to come and talk to her about becoming a Royalist and, when he came to her under flag of truce, she began by extending her hand for him to kiss. Being a gentleman, he kissed her hand. After that, it was only a matter of settling minor details.

Queen Henrietta Maria couldn't repay the cash the Parliametary commissioner had stolen, but she could and did release the rents of Cholmeley's family land, which was already captured by the Royalists, and this meant he could pay the boys again. That was important to Cholmeley, because he didn't mind funding his garrison's wages, but he got really fucked off, really quickly, if their wages were even a day late. As for the beheading thing, Queen Henrietta and Hugh Cholmeley both knew that King Charles's word, his sworn oath on the bible, was worth absolutely nothing. So Queen Henrietta Maria pardoned Hugh Cholmeley in her own name. King Charles would break his own pledge in a heartbeat; but he would never ever break Queen Henrietta Maria's word. That was the deal, and Cholmeley lived up to it all the rest of the Civil War, never changing sides again when the Royalists lost. I suspect the Queen will have given him her hand to kiss again when he departed, having signed in his own blood.

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by otokonomidori

But nobody is ever going to let you have a referendum - so if anybody's getting independence it's going to be we haggis fanciers who'll do the deciding!!

I wouldn't do it for real (at least not when sober and off drugs) but I do rather think it would be quite fair to make conditions in exchange for any future Indyref 2. Definitely the Scoundrel Agreement would say that there must be a whole of UK and NI referendum. Scotland gets the usual question. The rest of us get to vote whether or not to fuck Scotland off out of it regardless, even if she votes to stay in.

Maybe not next time, but the rest of us can't be expected to endlessly tolerate new calls for a new referendum two minutes after the last "once in a generation" referendum voted No. This time the excuse is Brexit. Next time, the excuse will be something else. No. I would urge Boris Johnson to tell Nicola Sturgeon to go fuck herself and then see whether she can force the rest of us to let her hold a referendum. That will be a neat trick if she can do it.

If Nicola Sturgeon ever takes one step over the line of the law, as the Catalan nationalists did when they held an illegal referendum, I'd treat it as Treason and press charges on that basis, and outlaw the SNP immediately if they ever went that far. There is a limit to patience.

[seany65]

Originally Posted by Mal Hombre

Time to dust off an old classic Methinks.....

THAT'S the ruddy flag of the ruddy plantagenets, who originated in ruddy frogland!

There's nowt wrong with the white dragon flag of King Alfred or king Harold Godwinson, who, as well as other kings of England at different times, fought under that flag in various battles.

[mizlaplan]

Ah, ye olde flag of the Anglo-Saxons:
https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology...e_anglosaxons/
The history of the flag is a bit murky but a hell of a lot more English than the cross of Saint George, which to be honest, is a bit boring.

[Mal Hombre]

The dragon Banner was a windsock, Adopted from the Sarmations by the Romans, Then adopted by the West Saxons from the Romans. Not that English really..