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June 27th, 2017, 09:14 AM | #2141 |
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Actually the Royal family's property they pay for themselves. It is the Nations properties that are being repaired at public expense. Sandringham - Queen pays for, Buck House we pay for.
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June 27th, 2017, 09:16 AM | #2142 | |
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Marx, on the other hand, perfectly understood the world he lived in and how it emerged in the first place. It was the bourgeois capitalist world of the 19th century. Its property relations and laws were the result of a specific epoch whereas Proudhon didn't seem to understand that there is a major difference between ancient property, medieval/feudal property and bourgeois/capitalist property. |
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June 27th, 2017, 09:19 AM | #2143 |
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June 27th, 2017, 06:12 PM | #2144 | |
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Proudhon was the only revolutionary theorist of the nineteenth century who had come from the working class. Marx was the son of a lawyer. Proudhon is considered by many to be the father of anarchism. In 1840, he declares himself as anarchist. But he was not a violent anarchist. He wrote: « La liberté est anarchie, parce qu'elle n'admet pas le gouvernement de la volonté, mais seulement l'autorité de la loi, c'est-à-dire de la nécessité » ("Freedom is anarchy, because it does not admit the government of the will, but only the authority of the law, that is, of necessity") In 1845, Marx writes: "Proudhon writes not only in the interest of the proletarians; He is himself a proletarian, a workman. His work is a scientific manifesto of the French proletariat ". On May 5, 1846, Karl Marx proposed to him to be his correspondent for France, but Proudhon was not very warm about this. But as you wrote and according several analysts, Proudhon was on some points a little bit "naiv" and that was not the fact with Marx. If you remember well the French that you learned at school, here is a very interesting debate about Proudhon. Exclusif : le débat Michel Onfray & Alain de Benoist Actually in France, more and more farmers have decided to collaborate together without waiting and hoping the help of the state. After the years of the Presidencies of Mitterand, Chirac, Sarkozy and Holland, a lot of hard-working people consider the French state as a slave driver. According to the philosopher Michel Onfray (who you can listen in the video, he's a son of farmer and a "social anarchist"), these people are following the current of thoughts of Proudhon. |
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June 27th, 2017, 06:21 PM | #2145 | |
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Are they not far toooooo rich? Or in other words, what did they make to be that rich? Please, don't think that I want to create a revolution in England! These are just questions from a man who doesn't live in a country in which there are monarchs! |
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June 27th, 2017, 07:55 PM | #2146 |
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June 27th, 2017, 08:47 PM | #2147 | |
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The Windsors and their forbears made nothing to be that rich except perhaps to give the country stability. We had had the Stuarts as Monarchs for many years and they gave us nothing but trouble (and the King James Bible). The Civil war and its aftermath taught us to be wary of bad governance, but the reign of William and Mary and then Anne established something that we came to agree with. Peace and order within ourselves. A nation that changed but did so without violent revolution and bloodshed. |
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June 28th, 2017, 08:00 AM | #2148 | |
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Obviously Marx and Proudhon went separate ways. But Marx didn't hate Proudhon. He just thought that his ideas are too naive to be of any use for an actual system change. It's not that Marx embraced violence but it was clear to him that the political and economic establishment will never agree to a social transformation in the interest of all people. They are going to cling to their class rule with all means available and have been slaughtering people for that cause ever since class rule emerged. All revolutions have been violent so far. A peaceful transformation toward a just society would be humanity's greatest deed. It's just that I can't think of any such case in history. |
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June 28th, 2017, 08:02 AM | #2149 | |
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Glad to see we got our priorities right. |
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June 28th, 2017, 08:24 AM | #2150 |
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His Light O'Love had Her own German "roots"-With Joachim Von Ribbentrop..
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