Horrors of late capitalism

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

I wonder how many people ever wanted to escape from the West to the USSR, and did?

Probably not very many. Lee Harvey Oswald is the only one that comes immediately to mind.

He should have stayed there.

The largest number were in the 1920s.

It wasn't an "escape", because no one in the West would prevent you from emigrating to the East, assuming no other laws were being broken. The US doesn't have exit visas . . .

The were a number of leftists and also african Americans who moved to Russia in the 1920s and '30s.

see:
http://www.blackpast.org/perspectives/x

There were a fair number of white communists, notably a Finnish-American community, that also moved.

No one had to "escape" from the West, other than folks who'd broken laws and were wanted by the authorities. Ordinary folks who wanted to "defect" just got on a plane and then a train . .

Lee Harvey Oswald didn't have to do tricky or evasive, no one was trying to stop him. He traveled to Finland, then got on a train for Leningrad. The US wasn't looking for him at the time, and note that when Oswald tires of the Soviet Union, he returns to the US with no repercussions. The Soviets were eager to see him go-- didn't trust him, wasn't sure why he was there and he didn't have anything much to offer; he hadn't renounced his US citizenship, so he was free to travel back to the US on his own passport.

Its striking that Communist nations built walls to keep people in; liberal democracies occasionally have to build walls to keep them out.

That's a pretty good empirical measure of the relative [lack] of attractions of a society

[Roubignol]

Turkish workers have seen their lira sink, because of a fight of egos between Trump and Erdogan.

Turkey's currency crisis rages on as lira sinks again

The Turkish lira plunged as much as 11% against the dollar, hitting a record low, before recovering some of its losses in volatile trading. The lira had already plummeted more than 20% last week as a political clash with the United States intensified and investors fretted about the Turkish government's lack of action to tackle the problems plaguing its economy.

How workers can trust the integrity of this system ?

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

I wonder how many people ever wanted to escape from the West to the USSR, and did?

I'd love to have , things I could do there and really enjoy myself

Hmm, lets see, I'll start at the top

1, ?

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by Estreeter

I'd love to have , things I could do there and really enjoy myself

Hmm, lets see, I'll start at the top

1, ?

1. Pee on Comrade Stalin's grave.
2. Enjoy a classic KGB beating, in unique Russian style.
3. Experience the utter joy of intellectual surrender as you sign your confession in the cellars of the Lubyanka. That night, read letter of encouragement from xyzde69 in your cell and experience the pleasure of true comradeship for the first time.
4. Scenic train ride to Siberia. See the Russian landscape as few foreigners ever get to see it.
5. Lose those pounds you've been meaning to drop as you fell trees and build roads to the Arctic Circle with your comrades in the gulag. Scant meals of borscht and black bread hurry the process along, and clean out your digestive system as well.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

1. Pee on Comrade Stalin's grave.
2. Enjoy a classic KGB beating, in unique Russian style.
3. Experience the utter joy of intellectual surrender as you sign your confession in the cellars of the Lubyanka. That night, read letter of encouragement from xyzde69 in your cell and experience the pleasure of true comradeship for the first time.
4. Scenic train ride to Siberia. See the Russian landscape as few foreigners ever get to see it.
5. Lose those pounds you've been meaning to drop as you fell trees and build roads to the Arctic Circle with your comrades in the gulag. Scant meals of borscht and black bread hurry the process along, and clean out your digestive system as well.

6. Empty food markets
7. Wide range of products to suit your individual tastes and desires
8.

[Roubignol]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

I wonder how many people ever wanted to escape from the West to the USSR, and did?

Probably not very many. Lee Harvey Oswald is the only one that comes immediately to mind.

He should have stayed there.

You must know that until the early 80's, PC party was very important in France. Socialists too.
There was no reason to live in USSR. Rich and middle classes were highly taxed in France and wealth redistributed.
Socialist President François Mitterand get the contribution of the French Communists to be elected. He betrayed them as all the socio-democrats betrayed their electors and the Communists.

A lot of French intellectuals made the apology of Communism, but a lot of them were skeptical about Stalinism. They considered that as a form of dictatorship.

You seem too be a clever man. Just read some summaries of egalitarian philosophies (like Marx, Proudhon, early French revolutionaries, etc...).

Just watch the difference of a country having a social tradition like France and a liberal one like the USA.
USA has 17% of people living under the poverty line.
That's the richest country in the world. It's unacceptable to get so many poors in a rich country like that.
When in comparison France only get 8% thanks to a very social politics.



OCDE Poverty rate

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

Probably not very many. Lee Harvey Oswald is the only one that comes immediately to mind.
He should have stayed there.

It seems that Kennedy's family made business with the mafia and Joseph Patrick was among the Capitalists who were responsible to the 1929 crisis that caused a lot of misery all around the world.

That's surprising how capitalist fans don't correctly read the history.

They blame Nazi, but forget to observe that they were sponsored by Capitalism.
They blame Socialist revolutions, but forget to observe they were revolts against by Capitalist colonialism.

[Estreeter]

Originally Posted by xyzde69

They blame Nazi, but forget to observe that they were sponsored by Capitalism.
They blame Socialist revolutions, but forget to observe they were revolts against by Capitalist colonialism.

You know the one stand out thing I have noticed between this thread and the Commie thread, not sure if anyone else has.

It's this, We don't care if you want to live like a Communist, Socialist or Hippie whatever, in fact I've even suggested you and your like minded go and do so and want you to feel free in doing so, however all you people on the far left want to do is make us want to abandon what we like, and even suggest to destruct our way of life and it's system.

Between this thread and the other all I see is without you all knowing it your own greed in wanting to impose your preferred way of life on the planet

So, once again, blah blah blah same old same old bullshit that amuses me

I'll quote a comedian I like describing these 2 threads
"It's like masturbating with a cheese grater, slightly amusing, mostly painful"

[blondifan]

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

....? At what point does prodigal wastage of finite resources become a consideration for even the most self centred?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7zuMREQleI

In Australia (at least), it seems very little of what we are encouraged to recycle, gets recycled.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/dupe...19-p4z0v7.html

Same is particularly true in my area as they claim transportation costs are prohibitive and no one wants to set up facilities to process locally.

[deepsepia]

Originally Posted by blondifan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7zuMREQleI

In Australia (at least), it seems very little of what we are encouraged to recycle, gets recycled.

{snip}

Same is particularly true in my area as they claim transportation costs are prohibitive and no one wants to set up facilities to process locally.

There are things that are efficient to recycle-- aluminum cans are probably top of the list. It takes a lot of energy to produce aluminum from bauxite, but very little to recycle a can-- so if you were going to do one thing, cans would be that one thing. Glass is much less efficient.

Other things you want to recycle not so much because its efficient, but because it keeps them out of trash-- plastics are a disaster in our oceans, and keeping them out of landfills even though the recycling efficiency is low is worthwhile on environmental grounds.

That's much more typical-- recycling isn't particularly efficient, but it can reduce the volume of trash.

[Nobody1]

Horrors of late capitalism. Today : Fascism.

https://eand.co/the-economys-not-boo...f-a1663d94498e