Global Warming

[bowlinggreen]

Originally Posted by Brian249x

Latest on climate change.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...evening&wpmm=1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...evening&wpmm=1

For the record, my questions started back in the 1960s when I began to wonder what ever happened to the cedars of Lebanon. Then, I began to question why the areas where our earliest civilizations started are now deserts. During a vacation to Maui during the 1980s, a tour guide mentioned that trees were planted atop the mountain on Lanai to capture clouds and create more rainfall on the island to make rainfall possible. Around that time we had a prolonged and severe drought on the West Coast and I began to wonder if extensive logging was changing the rainfall patterns in addition to destroying our fisheries. I more or less assumed that increasing human population was degrading the environment in a way that would eventually lead to our extinction. When Al Gore brought out An Inconvenient Truth I had hope for a couple of years. But since then, the repeated levels of denial, the fact that changes have occurred much more rapidly than previous projections, and seeing changes in the landscape where I hike have convinced me that it is hopeless. It is possible that the climate and environment could change drastically and abruptly in my lifetime and I am just turning 68. I see no evidence that humanity at large will make the changes necessary to save the species from extinction.

The reason there are deserts where early civilizations used to be is because they chopped down all of the trees to build things. Desertification sets in, and wa-la! Nothing to do with atmospheric climate change. Just too many humans, consuming what's on the land. A similar effect took place around the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan, which is now Mexico City. The Spaniards essentially denuded the forests for miles around after they conquered, resulting in a barren landscape.

The earth is warming, and humans are contributing to it to a degree, but that is far from the whole story. We are simply in a warming period right now, but don't worry, this interglacial will end someday, and it will get a lot colder than you probably want it to be.

Once upon a time there were tropical forests at the North Pole. Keep that in mind when you worry about global warming. The Earth has been both MUCH warmer and MUCH colder than it is right now.

[ukcarter]

Originally Posted by bowlinggreen

The Earth has been both MUCH warmer and MUCH colder than it is right now.

You're correct here, of course: the ever-engaging xkcd even has an illustrative cartoon Earth Temperature Timeline

[RowanMooreFan]

We, the Great Humans, fail to notice, that we are but an accident in the course of life on earth. We are so self-important, so big-headed that we consider ourselves worthy of being saved. There are thousands and thousands of species that have become extinct and one day it will be our time and we will make room for other species. We are far too many already, yet we don't want to address the problems associated with our ever growing population. The earth adapts to everything you throw at it. It will survive long after us and will harbor other species that will adapt to earth. We are the worst and most criminal species to have ever lived. We seriously do not deserve to live on and eventually earth will get rid of us like a surface nuisance, a bad case of flu, like George Carlin said.
What great things have we achieved in the Grand Scheme in our relatively short existence? Not much to brag about it seems.

[Arturo2nd]

Originally Posted by RowanMooreFan

...We are the worst and most criminal species to have ever lived...

What great things have we achieved in the Grand Scheme in our relatively short existence? Not much to brag about it seems.

Within a few thousand years of our extinction natural forces of decay and erosion will remove all evidence of our existence. If similar species have existed in the past it would similarly be very unlikely that any fossil record would remain of their passing.

[AmateurEmale]

I think there is a case to be made for climate change, because in the last two winters, there has suddenly been almost no snow, whereas in southern Ohio, we typically get several weeks with snow accumulations. And to think that last week we hit 71 degrees Fahrenheit in the middle of February? Yeah, I think the climate could be changing.

It's still unfair to just blame Americans, because there's other very populous nations (China, India, Brazil, Indonesia to name a few) that undoubtedly make a contribution to greenhouse gases.

But, one of my relatives thinks that "we've had periods of 50 years in the past where it's significantly lower or higher than average." And she listens to Faux Noise...

[scoundrel]

Originally Posted by AmateurEmale

I think there is a case to be made for climate change, because in the last two winters, there has suddenly been almost no snow, whereas in southern Ohio, we typically get several weeks with snow accumulations. And to think that last week we hit 71 degrees Fahrenheit in the middle of February? Yeah, I think the climate could be changing.

It's still unfair to just blame Americans, because there's other very populous nations (China, India, Brazil, Indonesia to name a few) that undoubtedly make a contribution to greenhouse gases.

But, one of my relatives thinks that "we've had periods of 50 years in the past where it's significantly lower or higher than average." And she listens to Faux Noise...

The climate does change: it is not set in one pattern eternally. One of the variables is that the orbit of the earth around the sun is in a cycle of variation. A much shorter term variable is sun spot activity. In general terms when the sun shines more intensely the earth gets warmer.

Contrary to much of what we hear from scientists and politicians there is a lot we still do not know about how our climate works. But common sense ought to tell us that polluting our air and soil and water is unsound behaviour which cannot end well. There is no need for a climate change argument to justify controls on the burning of fossil fuels; for example, the link between petrol and diesel exhaust fumes and deaths from respiratory diseases in urban areas is not conjecture, and neither is the link between large scale coal fired energy generation and acid rain downwind of the power stations.

[AmateurEmale]

@scoundrel: I think you are right about that.

Even libertarians (who don't like the federal government) do end up supporting pollution controls and outlawing pollution by cars, factories, etc. because it is either a trespass against someone's property, or an assault on someone's person.

I guess I have more of a Gore / Nader outlook on this issue, because we could advance our tech level on this planet while solving environmental and energy problems at the same time. I'd like to see Tesla energy and wireless transmission of power by 2025.

Gary Johnson was confronted about this subject when he ran for President in 2016. He was Governor of New Mexico, a more liberal and 2-1 Democrat state; they had problems with mining and other companies polluting their environment, and he notably had to take on Chevron as governor. He said that the purist libertarian position is that you don't need an EPA, that court cases and damages against polluters would be enough to stop it, but in reality "You as a citizen don't have the deep pockets to take on Chevron" and other corporations. Still, in theory, the LP is better than the GOP for thinking about this issue, and have more credibility because most corporations don't support the LP.

[Arturo2nd]

When I view this video I am reminded of a Robin Williams bit where he was portraying a presidential candidate. When asked about global warming he promised a raft for everyone living near the coasts.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-...imation-2017-4

We are well on our way to melting the ice.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/en...ming/big-thaw/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrea...ers_since_1850

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc..._sports_web_gs

[MANDI]

the planet is cooling.....were in a warming trend for now...that's all! consider this ...400 million years ago this planet supported giant reptiles(cold blooded creatures)..who's bodies absorb heat from there surrondings. the largest weighing in at over 40 tons...ask yourself what the average temp of the planet must have been! we have been keeping weather records for 135 years on a planet that's been here for 4 billion....we are so proud of ourselves...the mighty human creature! we are the most self righteous of creatures....and we will destroy ourselves on our own...and this planet will still be here with no signs of us ever having been here! George Carlin was right!

[frankoboff]

Yes I'm fed up with all these scientists on the wind farm payroll telling me what to do. Anyway the bible and Noah's Ark tell us that climate change happens all the time and if scientists spent more time reading the bible instead of doing science stuff then the Obamacare Illuminati wouldn't have to keep photoshopping pictures of icebergs to make them look all melty.